Is arc fault required in dinnettes in kitchens?

[jason sleeth]

The 08 seems to be vague and I think this could go either way but I believe they are not required in dinnettes in the kitchen. What are your thoughts

 

[electricmanscott]

Are arc faults required in kitchens? There's your answer.

 

[Volta]

Are arc faults required in areas similar to dining rooms? There's another answer. :roll:

 

[jason sleeth]

They are not required in kitchens. Breakfast bars at the counter top and dinnettes should not count if they are in the same room as the kitchen. The room is the kitchen. I could see how this could easily be argued but I hope th AHJ sees it my way.

 

[electricmanscott]

Are arc faults required in areas similar to dining rooms? There's another answer. :roll:

You can put a table in the kitchen, it's still a kitchen. No AFCI required.

This is how these things go off kilter. The tendency seems to be to look right past the obvious.

 

[elohr46]

The 08 seems to be vague and I think this could go either way but I believe they are not required in dinnettes in the kitchen. What are your thoughts

That's tough call to make beings many kitchen layouts are so different. I have a AFCI map that I downloaded and if the site is still active this may help.

www.afcisafety.org/images/FirstFloorPlan.jpg

I think this came from NEMA.

 

[Volta]

You can put a table in the kitchen, it's still a kitchen. No AFCI required.

This is how these things go off kilter. The tendency seems to be to look right past the obvious.

I love your signature line . . . :grin:

Nowhere in the code does it state that circuits supplying outlets installed in a kitchen are not required to be protected by an AFCI. What it does say is that circuits those for areas similar to dining rooms shall be protected.

Now we all are very aware of the rooms that where left off of the list, namely kitchens. If you want to avoid it being confused with a dining area, as some will define dinette, then I would call it a kitchen nook or alcove, and leave the word segment "dine" far away from it.

 

[Smart $]

...then I would call it a kitchen nook or alcove, and leave the word segment "dine" far away from it.

It will not be that simple if the rooms/areas are named on stamped project drawings :roll:

 

[One-eyed Jack]

It will not be that simple if the rooms/areas are named on stamped project drawings :roll:

You can call a room a storage room on plans and finish it as a dining room just off the kitchen. What is it now? Had this happen to me and DOI in their infinite wisdom sight unseen called it a storage room. No convenience outlets required.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Dining room requires AFCI protection.

Now it gets tricky. Is the 'dinette' in the kitchen or near the kitchen?

If in the kitchen then no AFCI protection required.

Near the kitchen? Then add AFCI protection.

A room can not be defined (boundaries) so we must use some judgement.

If you need to enter the kitchen area then I say no.

If you need not enter the kitchen area then I say yes.

 

[Smart $]

You can call a room a storage room on plans and finish it as a dining room just off the kitchen. What is it now? Had this happen to me and DOI in their infinite wisdom sight unseen called it a storage room. No convenience outlets required.

Sorta depends on whose stamp is on the plans

If it was the plans examiner's, changes to the plans have to be (TTBOMK) resubmitted, or otherwise approved.

But yes, oversights will occur... after all, if it happens in U.S. Congress who are we to say it ain't right :roll:

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

My kitchen and family room occupy the same space. no partitions same floor. When I moved in I included the family room into the kitchen with a table and relocated my cable tv to the living room . Would you call this blended area a kitchen ? if you walked in im sure most people would think so. What i think the code was looking for that was not to be included on the afci was the kitchen counter top recepticals and the appliance circuits they did make it a little fuzzy.

 

[jxofaltrds]

My kitchen and family room occupy the same space. no partitions same floor. When I moved in I included the family room into the kitchen with a table and relocated my cable tv to the living room . Would you call this blended area a kitchen ? if you walked in im sure most people would think so. What i think the code was looking for that was not to be included on the afci was the kitchen counter top recepticals and the appliance circuits they did make it a little fuzzy.

The Power Point (2008 NEC changes) from the IAEI 'kind of' gives that impression.

But it also shows lights and switches from having to be AFCI protected.

 

[nukeantz]

I had a local county inspector tell me he would require arc fault protection for the kitchen lights. He stated that the code officials for North Carolina require it and told the inspectors at a meeting that it is the states interpretation of the code. I told him I thought he was wrong, but he said he would not final job if I did not do it. I said that the code excludes kitchens, baths, laundry rooms, garages, and he said they only meant the receptacles in those areas

 

[newinspector1]

I had a local county inspector tell me he would require arc fault protection for the kitchen lights. He stated that the code officials for North Carolina require it and told the inspectors at a meeting that it is the states interpretation of the code. I told him I thought he was wrong, but he said he would not final job if I did not do it. I said that the code excludes kitchens, baths, laundry rooms, garages, and he said they only meant the receptacles in those areas

It would probably be best to check with DOI yourself. Let us know their response.