Open Neutral

[guschash]

HO calls and said her lights blink, thinks it is when her refrigerator comes on. Well I get out of the truck and walk over to utility pole and see the neutral is not connected. Go down the basement and take cover off panel. What a mess, find wire short to panel. Pull meter out and someone had load side conductors split bolted to feed another panel going upstairs.
Well we a repair at the first panel and basement, put meter back in and tell HO she needs a new service. We call POCO and they are coming to do repair at pole. Since it is late we tell we will be back in morning. We check her outlets and they all read 122v. This is a old, old house with two prong receptacles that you have to trun a cover to get in. I was a little surprise to see 122v but figure it because it grounded at the water meter. I thought it had to go back to the source ( transformer ) to complete the circuit?

 

[infinity]

Does this area have a common water supply system or wells? If there is a common water supply system the neutral current will travel through the water pipe to the neighbors house and back through the neutral to the utility transformer.

 

[shepelec]

Put an amp probe on the GEC and you will see where your neutral current is going. There must be low resistance back to the transformer ground.

 

[steve66]

Sounds like a potentially dangerous situation. I wonder if it would have been better to leave the meter pulled, and told the POCO is was an urgent call (i.e. - power is off until you get here.)

Of course, I'm not sure the homeowner would like that. You might have also been killing any chances of repeat business. But you might have been explain the open neutral could kill all their expensive electronic appliances.

Steve

 

[stew]

For me I would have never reinstalled the meter. I would have called for an emergency repair by the poco and stood by until it was completed. It is leaving your butt hanging out a hundred miles when as a qualified electrician seeing a known hazard such as this existing at the time of a temp repair leaves the very real potential danger unrepaired and walks off ! Would never happen on my watch and I have had this exact same situation occur 3 or 4 times over the last few years. This is just how I would do it to cover my bases.

 

[e57]

I too agree - no neutral - no meter... I would not be above re-connecting it myself if at the weather head. But if at the weather head or pole it is the POCO responsibilty - a simple call to their dispatcher at any time would have them running to this as they do not want any further damage or liability. (I called in for a whole city block once and it seemed like they fell in from outer space in just a few minutes... But get fast responce for a single home too.)

As for the voltage reading - that could be one of two things - both are still a fire and shock hazard sans the neutral connection.

1. A relitively balanced load at the time of measurement. Shutting off or turning on any load to unbalance leg A or B could tip the voltage from 122/118 (240) to say 40/200 (240)
2. Neutral current flow or voltage stabilation being held on the main water pipe out to the neighbors house(s).... Still a hazard - and very common with metal water pipe... (I once had a client that swore up and down the plumber working next door blew up his TV and other stuff - took a while to convince him otherwise.)

 

[lakee911]

I too agree - no neutral - no meter... I would not be above re-connecting it myself if at the weather head. But if at the weather head or pole it is the POCO responsibilty - a simple call to their dispatcher at any time would have them running to this as they do not want any further damage or liability. (I called in for a whole city block once and it seemed like they fell in from outer space in just a few minutes... But get fast responce for a single home too.)

As for the voltage reading - that could be one of two things - both are still a fire and shock hazard sans the neutral connection.

1. A relitively balanced load at the time of measurement. Shutting off or turning on any load to unbalance leg A or B could tip the voltage from 122/118 (240) to say 40/200 (240)
2. Neutral current flow or voltage stabilation being held on the main water pipe out to the neighbors house(s).... Still a hazard - and very common with metal water pipe... (I once had a client that swore up and down the plumber working next door blew up his TV and other stuff - took a while to convince him otherwise.)

I called for my own house last summer ... took them 30min on a lazy Sunday afternoon. No reason not to wait.

 

[e57]

I called for my own house last summer ... took them 30min on a lazy Sunday afternoon. No reason not to wait.

I've called in all kinds of weather, at night - week-ends.... You could call for a disconnect or meter placement and wait for months - years even.... Call and say the words "High/low voltage issue" or "Lost neutral" and trucks are screeching to a stop out front...

 

[guschash]

The POCO came within the hour and make repair. We are changing service next week and also her daughter's who was there visiting with her mom. I felted the same way about putting the meter back in. It was late and told to call if there were any problems. I explained that I could not do the service change right now and give her the number of another electrican that I know that she can call but she wnats us to do it.