My company wants to use my license number?!

[joebell]

In MA all work needs to be done by a licensed journeyman or an apprentice under the direct supervision of a licensed journeyman, ratios on the job site are 1 journeyman to 1 apprentice. The company needs to have a master license (unless they are a one man show, Journeymen can pull permits but can only have one apprentice working under them) and the master has some liability but each journeyman is legally responsible for the work he does unless he can prove that the owner/master license for the company told him specifically to do something wrong. Even in that case I would imagine that the journeyman would still be responsible to a degree if he knowingly violated the code regardless of the orders from the "boss".


Also, to answer the OP's original question, the only way my license number is going on a permit is if the entire payment for the job is being written out to me. If I am getting ALL of the money, then I will take on ALL of the responsibility. I would not pull permits for my bosses company.

This has nothng to do with the OP but lets not leave out you must maintain you journeymans to work with the tools even if you have your Masters. Only in Mass.

 

[ohmhead]

Well in orlando florida a electrical contractor must have a masters and if your running the job as a supervisor for your company you must have a jr card or masters in pocket on site or they shut you down this is a city thing and most citys around central florida go this route .

I think all state/city should do this wonder how many do ?

I dont think of my crew as monkeys .

 

[PetrosA]

Trying to understand...

Trying to understand...

If the journeyman on the jobsite is responsible in MA, do they also have to carry liability insurance like the company they work for? Are they technically an employee or a subcontractor? If an employer tells them to do something against code because the bid doesn't cover the materials needed to do it to code, would the journeyman be expected (by law) to cover the additional expense out of pocket?

 

[weressl]

Hey guys, my company asked me for my license number today, so they can put it on the permit for the job that I am starting this week. I have never heard of a company doing this, and to me it doesn't seem right... Does anyone have any insight on this, is it legal? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Pretend you are a dentist and say: Open wide! When they raise eyebrows, tell them you weren't talking about their mouth, but valet.

 

[brentk]

In MN, there is a certain amount of responsibility on the journeyman that is on the job; however ultimately the Master for the company is responsible for ensuring that ALL jobs that done by the company he is signing for are properly done. There needs to be a certain amount of trust in the guys doing the work, or at least the lead/foreman on each job because there is only so much the master can personally watch over but he is ultimately responsible.

 

[rjvanwart]

Me thinks something stinks. I would not allow anyone to use my license. It belongs to me. Here in Iowa what they are asking you to do is called "pimping" your license and it is illegal.

 

[jmellc]

If your boss has license, his license should be used. Don't know the technicalities in your state. Here in NC, a co. can have 1 or more "qualifiers". Everyone listed as a qualifier with a co. may pull permits for the co. But a qualifier cannot then contract side work with that license. 1 license, 1 name. If a co. owner here lost or expired his license, he can hire a licensee to qualify the co. But if he is out there contracting or offering to contract before having that, he is in trouble. 1 large co. I worked for had as many as 6 qualifiers at one time, if I remember correctly. I don't know how liability would fall; I think it would generally be on the company.

 

[stevenj76]

It is also not uncommon for licenseholders to simply sell the use of their licenses and the mock-up employer/employee relationship exists only on paper.

That is extremely common here with the smaller shops, where they hire a supervisor on paper to sign permits.

I sign the permit on jobs I've done the majority of work on. The shop pays for a permit with a credit card, and then I fill out the sticker and sign it when the inspector comes. (Of course this is LOW VOLTAGE ONLY)

 

[Mulrooney]

Owners would be responsible liability wise. Employees could only be punished by board of electrical examiners. never heard of employee's carrying liability insurance for their work.

 

[hillbilly1]

Some localities require the holder of a master license appear in person to permit the job, faxes of a signed permit application is not accepted. I have pulled quite a few permits for the company I work for over the years. The city or county said they didn't care if it was the licenseholder that qualified the business or not, they just wanted a master to sign the permit. I think it is to reduce "Farmed out permits" It's not very practical to have the CEO of a multi-million dollar company who holds the qualifying license to pull a permit for a $500 job! We probably have a higher than average number of licensed people in the office and in the field in states that require only one license company wide.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It may very well be that the permit is in the owners name and license but perhaps an electrician with a license must be on the job and that's why he needs your license number.

 

[LarryFine]

It's not very practical to have the CEO of a multi-million dollar company who holds the qualifying license to pull a permit for a $500 job!

Nor for him to personally participate or supervise said job.

 

[hurk27]

Do you have anything to back this up?

From the above post on the laws of Ma.:

13.17: Corporate License

(1) Applicants for a Class A (Master's) or Class C (Systems Contractor) Corporation Certificate shall be holders of a Massachusetts Class A (Master's) or Class C (Systems Contractor) license in order to be the holder of a corporate license and shall provide to the Board the following:
(a) a completed application form together with the fee set by the Secretary of Administration and Finance;
(b) a list of all officers of such corporation and the qualifying officer certified by the Clerk of the corporation as a true copy of its records
(c) a copy of its Articles of Organization;
(d) a copy of the bylaws or if applicable agreement naming the Qualifying Officer and his or her responsibilities;
(e) the name of the individual holding the Class A (Master's) or Class C (System Contractor) license who will serve as the Qualifying Officer who may be a current employee; and
(f) a letter from the Qualifying Officer requesting that the Board grant the corporation a certificate based on the examination previously passed by him or her.

I agree that more then just giving them you license number has to take place, but it can be legal if done properly, and because you are now concidered a officer of that company you need to be paid for this, in many states this is true, I held a master for a company I worked for in Florida a long time ago, and the same here, I held sevral local license for the companey that I was working for, but now I'm on my own so there all back under my own company

 

[Real_Bostonian]

Permit Application

Permit Application

Hey guys, my company asked me for my license number today, so they can put it on the permit for the job that I am starting this week.

Being from Mass I'm curious how this turned out. I'm a master but the company certificate is in the name of another master - the company wants me to start pulling permits in the eastern part of the state while the other master remains in the western part of the state.

The permit has one line requesting the company name & its license # (basically the other master's #).

Then below it it asks for the licensee's name & #. My question is can another license electrician (journeyman or master) sign the 2nd line and pull the permit?

Any Mass inspectors in the house?

 

[renosteinke]

A touchy subject, and for good reason!

There can be a fine line between what's proper and what's not- so let's get back to basics.

The whole point of licensing laws is to ensure that the work is under the control of someone who knows what he's doing. The farther that person gets from the screwdriver, the more chance there is for things to go wrong.

"Competence," in this instance, is defined as having the license and pulling the permit. Period. If you lack the license, or it's not your name on the permit, you're not the 'competent' one for that job.

With competence comes responsibility. You are responsible for everything from the design to the warranty. While you can delegate someof these roles, you cannot escape them.

Naturally, it is not expected that you draw every line and tighten every screw yourself. You are expected to supervise crews, review plans, and do whatever it takes to complete the job.

It's also recognized that 'electrician' and 'businessman' are different trades. For thatreason, it's common -and perfectly proper- for one party to run the business while another has the trade qualifications. Here's where things start getting sticky - especially with the dishonest.

Whether you are on site, watching over the crew and meeting the inspectors- or sitting on the beach 'renting out' your license, the paperwork looks the same. That's where the ethical and legal issues come in.

If the firm is a corporation, and you are an officer, it's pretty clear what your relationship with the firm is. If you're punching the time clock, things get murky fast. After all, it is the very nature of your duties that defines whether you are 'management' or not.

Look at it this way: if you're hourly, the firm is saying you're not a supervisor, and that your job does not require 'professional' qualifications. If you're applying for the permit, you're telling the city that you'rein charge of the job. Do you see the contradiction?

Likewise, you need to ask yourself just what are the terms of your employment agreement. Were you hired as the 'qualified' person, or as just another drone? If you were hired as a simple electrician, and the guy now wants to use your license- that's a pretty major change in the terms of the agreement. Are you being paid for your new duties? What happens if you leave the job?

These days, a casual review of "Craigslist" will show you all manner of folks who are trying to cheat, to do electric work without bothering to use electricians. They make it pretty clear that they only want you to pull the permits, cash the checks ,and go away. There's a word for that: fraud. Don't fall for it.

If you decline to 'share' your license and are suddenly not needed anymore, be sure to notify whoever issued your license of that amazing coincidence. This is not about 'catching' them- it's about protecting your license.

 

[beddy]

I have had this same situation not to long ago. My company is pretty big and based out of Georgia. My Manager asked if I was willing to get my DC Masters if they paid for everything. Then I asked whats in it for me besides you giving some of the work to some other techs in the area and no compin sation. He says "Why is it always about money with you?" Duh do you think I want to work for free while all you corporate u no whats get big salaries and I do all the work for peanuts. Go get your own license.