arc fault & ac smoke detectors

[STEELER]

re: 2005 code. In bedrooms, arc fault protection for all outlets is required. How do I wire all bedroom ac smokes to a general lighting circuit (ie: a hallway lighting circuit) and connect it to the bedroom arc fault outlet circuit?

 

[charlie b]

I might have suggested using an arc fault breaker to feed the entire set of stuff. But that sounds too easy, so I must not quite understand the question. Can you elaborate on your situation?

Welcome to the forum.

 

[480sparky]

I typically take the master bedroom circuit to feed the smokes. Since it's already AFCI-protected, then all the smokes (whether in the bedrooms or not) are covered.

Like Charlie said, you could install an AFCI breaker on the general lighting circuit the supplies the smokes and accomplish the same thing.

 

[STEELER]

arc fault & smoke detectors

arc fault & smoke detectors

Hi,
Thanks for responding. If a bedroom is on it's own arc fault protected circuit and the bedroom has an ac smoke detector interconnected to all other smokes in the house and the smoke detector circuit receives it's power from a general lighting circuit not the arc fault protected bedroom circuit then not all outlets in that bedroom are arc fault protected as per 2005 NEC. Arc fault is a life/safety device. You do not want the smoke detector to loose power if the arc fault circuit in the bedroom trips. I do not understand how to wire the smokes to be arc fault protected.

 

[stew]

our wash state guys have eliminated the requirement for the smokes to be afci protected.I think there are other staes which have done this as well. They have also modified the requirement and still only require the bedrooms to be afci except for smokes.

 

[STEELER]

arc fault & smokes

arc fault & smokes

Thanks for the reply.
Problem. NEC states that all outlets in a bedroom must loose power when the arc fault trips. This includes the smoke dedector outlet. If, as in your reply, there is a fire in the master bedroom then all smokes in the house loose power except those that have battery back up. Some older smokes do not have battery backup. I do not think that a lighting outlet in a bedroom is a general lighting circuit.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I do the same as Ken. Wire one smoke from the end of a bedroom circuit then run a 3 wire between the smokes. If a smoke is in an area that does not require arc fault it really doesn't matter. Not sure what you are really looking for.

 

[STEELER]

arc fault & smokes

arc fault & smokes

Back ground
I am an electrical contractor 35 years and a fireman for 33 years.

 

[iwire]

Gee you almost never run into a Fireman / Electrician. :grin:


Welcome to the forum.

 

[augie47]

Your argument has been presented to the "powers that be" at NEC and their determination has been that the smokes in the bedroom take precedence over the possible power loss.
The decision is based on part on the fact that all the electric smoke alarms today have battery back-up so the fear of power loss is secondary.
Most of the jobs I see are wired as Ken & Dennis describe with the power originating on one of the bedroom arc fault circuits.

 

[480sparky]

If there is an arc that would cause the smokes to go out, they would operate on batteries until those died. If the arc causes a fire, they smokes should still run on batteries and detect it.

If the arc causes the AFCI to trip, without starting a fire, then after a few days or weeks, the smokes will all start chirping. After replacing the batteries in all of them over a period of a few days, I think most people would come to the conclusion that the power is off.

To avoid that situation, I use the master bedroom circuit to supply the smokes. If it trips, then it's gonna be painfully obvious something needs fixed. The average Joe & Jane may take all the batteries out of their smokes if a dedicated circuit that feeds them is out, but they sure aren't gonna stand for the power being out in the bedroom.

 

[STEELER]

arc fault & ac smoke detectors

Then the arc fault section in the 2005 NEC is uninforceable. If bedroom A powers the smokes and the circuit in bedroom B trips, then the smoke outlet in bedroom B is live. Violation of the 2005 NEC. More states need to look at this. Does anyone know if the 2008 NEC address this.

 

[iwire]

If bedroom A powers the smokes and the circuit in bedroom B trips, then the smoke outlet in bedroom B is live. Violation of the 2005 NEC.

That is not a violation.

 

[rcarroll]

Then the arc fault section in the 2005 NEC is uninforceable. If bedroom A powers the smokes and the circuit in bedroom B trips, then the smoke outlet in bedroom B is live. Violation of the 2005 NEC. More states need to look at this. Does anyone know if the 2008 NEC address this.

I'm not sure how you think this is a violation.
The '08 code expanded the AFCI requirements.

 

[480sparky]

Then the arc fault section in the 2005 NEC is uninforceable. If bedroom A powers the smokes and the circuit in bedroom B trips, then the smoke outlet in bedroom B is live. Violation of the 2005 NEC. More states need to look at this. Does anyone know if the 2008 NEC address this.

Many electricians put the receptacles on one circuit, and the lights on another when it comes to bedrooms. If one tripped, the other would still be on. This is not a violation.

If having more than one circuit in a room is a violation, then we'd better address the two SABCs for the kitchen.

 

[STEELER]

arc fault & smoke detectors

arc fault & smoke detectors

Thanks to all. After reading all the replys and rereading NEC 2005 210.12 (B) I see that I miss read the word circuits for circuit. Thanks again.

 

[hillbilly1]

I think your misunderstanding the requirement, It does not require that all of the receptacles in the bedroom trip at the same time, it just requires all of them to be Arc Fault protected. You could have four circuits in the bedroom, as long as they are all Arc Fault protected, they meet code.

 

[jaylectricity]

Thanks for the reply.
Problem. NEC states that all outlets in a bedroom must loose power when the arc fault trips. This includes the smoke dedector outlet. If, as in your reply, there is a fire in the master bedroom then all smokes in the house loose power except those that have battery back up. Some older smokes do not have battery backup. I do not think that a lighting outlet in a bedroom is a general lighting circuit.

That's why we install battery backup detectors now.

 

[jsharvey]

All Receptacles

All Receptacles

I think your misunderstanding the requirement, It does not require that all of the receptacles in the bedroom trip at the same time, it just requires all of them to be Arc Fault protected. You could have four circuits in the bedroom, as long as they are all Arc Fault protected, they meet code.

Steeler; you are including your "lighting circuit" under the all receptacles aren't you? Because the lights have to be AFCI protected as well.