Alwayslearningelec
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
- Occupation
- Estimator
Ok, I will be taking some electrical "hands on training" course in a few months. Do I really need to start with electrical theory first.
Ok where do i start
- Thread starter Alwayslearningelec
- Start date
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readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
I never learned much theory but always seemed to start with it, then was always surprised when it was useful on the job.
Since your profile shows you as an estimator, and if you can get hands on training, I would start with learning what the guys are doing and how it is installed and then learn how it works if you have time.
This will help in your estimating if you understand what it takes to actually do the job.
This will help in your estimating if you understand what it takes to actually do the job.
laketime
Senior Member
I worked for a guy awhile back that told me the best electrician that ever worked for him became the worst estimator he ever had when he changed positions. He said that the guy had such an intimate knowledge of what it took to do the job he never won a contract because his price was always too high. Moral is do not learn too much about how to install if you are an estimator.
GUNNING
Senior Member
- Location
- Gainesville, Florida
u may be right
quinn77
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Jackson, TX USA
interesting concept.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
If you are going to continue as an estiamtor then you don't need any theory but if you want to get into electrical work or design then theory is a good place to start.
You don't really learn theory all at once. It common to start with basic electrical theory. This will give you some idea of how things work but you are still years from doing any engineering work. A lot of electrical training is just to understand what is being stated or said. Just understanding what series and parallel circuits are is a plus. Many people don't really understand what being said when you talk about voltage, current and power or the difference between resistance and impedance.
Theory will help to develope the correct vocabulary to understand what is being said or what is written. It is one thing to hear a word used and another to fully understand the meaning of what's being said.
Once you get certain basic building blocks and an understanding of electrical terminology then you can do much study on your own. It's hard for anyone to study on their own if they don't understand the language.
As usual this is just an opinion and everyone had one.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Much depends on where you intend to go with your career. If you are trying to become a better estimator, then I think the practical aspects of electrical installation work will be of more value than the theory of how electricity works. If you wish to become an electrician, then I believe a knowledge of theory is essential. You don't have to learn it first, but you will need to learn it sometime.
laketime
Senior Member
Are you saying that the company that does win the job will always lose money?
Not saying that at all. What I am saying as electricians we tend to know every screw nut and bolt and every second that it will take to crew them in. Not to mention lost productivity time due to job conditions. With that knowledge comes the possibility of over thinking the bid and coming in higher than a competitor. That does not mean that the lower bid will lose money. Profit can be made many ways on a project and the bid to secure the job is not always where that happens. An electrician may understand what it takes to do the job, but a good estimator understands some of that PLUS current market conditions and how his competition on the bid will price it.
raberding
Senior Member
- Location
- Dayton, OH
- Occupation
- Consulting Engineer
elec theory
elec theory
basic theory - like Ohm's law - and understanding the relationships among Power, Voltage, Resistance, and Current - is an invaluable tool for anyone in the electrical business
elec theory
basic theory - like Ohm's law - and understanding the relationships among Power, Voltage, Resistance, and Current - is an invaluable tool for anyone in the electrical business
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
Are you saying that the company that does win the job will always lose money?
I'm sure you have herd the adage for electrical contracting. "The easiest way to make a small fortune in electrical contracting is to start with a large one".
Or you could look at it like this. An estiamtor never bids a job at the correct amount. If the bid is won it was estiamted to cheap and if the bid is lost it was estiamted to high.
I'm sure you have herd the adage for electrical contracting. "The easiest way to make a small fortune in electrical contracting is to start with a large one".
Or you could look at it like this. An estiamtor never bids a job at the correct amount. If the bid is won it was estiamted to cheap and if the bid is lost it was estiamted to high.
Many of our local guys bid on the city and county projects, and what is really funny is that almost all the winning contractors are out of business after they finish the projects
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Part of the reason for that is that we take low bid by law. Now here in this city we hire a project manager, things like "oh we didn't bid that, that way" don't fly. It's on the plans. Change orders are usually only approved if it's a change that we generate.
You bid it for that, now build it for that.:roll:
laketime
Senior Member
I bid a public works project recently with 2 other EC's. I came in at 51k, another guy was 52k and the guy that got the job came in at 32k
. Do not know how he will do it considering material/gear/lighting for the project came in at 32k.I remember going with a buddy to pick up the information on a sewer maint bid, there was about 200 contractors there, and the groups that were in front of the building were all talking about how low they would go just to get the job, they thought once they would go low to just get in the door, and once they got the job they would get it every year, what a shock it must of been when they but it out for bid again the next year.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
The owner of a sign company said it best. There is a little strip mall that's not a very good location but there are businesses there and you have to wonder why. He said it doesn't really matter we install a sign now and a year from now we install a sign for someone else. People just keep trying to open a business there because the rent is cheap, doesn't anyone ask why?
It's not just electrical contractors that don't think about what they are getting in to.
IrishRugger
Senior Member
I bid a public works project recently with 2 other EC's. I came in at 51k, another guy was 52k and the guy that got the job came in at 32k
I have been there done that same as you have laketime. kind of grinds your gears.
quinn77
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Jackson, TX USA
Here in Texas its "lowest QUALIFIED bidder"...we just lost an estimate for a new sewer plant. Im wiring a new sewer plant now and I estimated the one we lost....same technology but the guys we lost the bid to are doing the new one for the same price as we are doing the one in progress for...and it is much smaller than the one i lost. Guess i did know too much, but i think it was for the better. ps....one in progress = 360,000 gallons per day, bid i lost = 3 million gallons per day. I have a hunch those guys will lose a bit.
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