Alternatives to AutoCAD Electrical ?

[j_a_wolfe]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but we'll give it a spin and see what happens. We are trying to generate "as built" drawings of some of our equipment and would like to use AutoCAD Electrical. The price tag for this software makes it out of reach for this project. Although the features available in the package justify its cost, I don't think we need all of the design and "what-if" features. Can anyone recommend a good software package that has the appropriate features to allow us to draw industrial control panels with a price tag less than the $5295 AutoCad product?
Thanx,
Jim

 

[sgunsel]

If you want or need AutoCAD compatibilty, try Bricscad. If all you want is to make drawings, probably any CAD program will do. I have used TurboCad with good results, but not such good AutoCad interchangeability. TurboCad had the easiest learning curve - at least for me. Bricscad is quite a bit less expensive than AutoCad, but just as difficult, or easy, to use.

Almost all CAD programs can be downloaded on a trial basis. Older versions are usually available on ebay, and are probably way more capable than needed for most simple applications for a fraction of the cosat.

Good luck.

 

[kingpb]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but we'll give it a spin and see what happens. We are trying to generate "as built" drawings of some of our equipment and would like to use AutoCAD Electrical. The price tag for this software makes it out of reach for this project. Although the features available in the package justify its cost, I don't think we need all of the design and "what-if" features. Can anyone recommend a good software package that has the appropriate features to allow us to draw industrial control panels with a price tag less than the $5295 AutoCad product?
Thanx,
Jim

To help with your decision, something you may need to consider; are you going to be providing these drawings to the end user in electronic format? If so, you may be forced to use AutoCad, AutoCad Lite, or Microstation, as I know our contracts with vendors require this. If this is a one-off situation, then you may want to consider subcontracting the Cad work out. If your going to be doing this on a regular basis, then you may have limited choices.

 

[billsnuff]

I have this downloaded, but haven't had the opportunity to spend any time with it just yet.......so FWIW http://doublecad.com/

 

[cadpoint]

Bentley Building Electrical Systems V8i for AutoCAD

Bentley Building Electrical Systems V8i for AutoCAD

I'm the other guy, I've been a Intergraph and MicroStation user all my CAD career. I was a board trained draftsman in a third life.

This software listed above might cost as much as the AutoCAD Seat, I frankly don't know!

This software works in conjunction with a fully licensed seat of AutoCAD.
Here
or Here there complete listing of seconardy electrical packages from the same supplier.

I believe this software (first link) has been out since version 8 or 10 / or 10 and 11 of ACAD.

It's not clear to me that you have existing plans; you need to make up some of your equipment arrangements or exactly where you are in these aspects.

If you have plans you can do several things, one is to scan the plans. I don't have a reference to any of that software but it is my understanding that this has come a long way, but one will pay a price. This also can go from 3K to 10K.(complete package) I do know that usually a scanner comes with its software, and only works for that scanner, the problem is that the file just turns into a *.IMG file (an image file). And depending on the software will tune it up to an electronic drawing or not and usually through a drafters/CAD operator input.

The following is some of the draw backs of using an active data bases. (as I know it - and this is old history) These are still some considerations if you need record keeping on you files.
ACAD will display excel work sheets but at not be interactive to the screen.
Bentley doesn't do it at all for an excel file. But I think Bentley re-wrote their software to be about the same a ACAD (display - but not interactive to the screen)

I don't know what Data Base - ACAD ever used. (used or liked)
I do know Bentley loves Oracle. In your case this might be another expense.

Only pricy software (CAD) will give you the needed DATA Base interface.
I 'm not sure but I don't think the low end packages will even display, excel and data base have pop up records or the like, thus your problem.

 

[gar]

100504-1227 EST

Take a look at Fastcad. It is very powerful and I have used it since its earliest days.
http://www.fastcad.com/

The addition of MDE to Fastcad really makes Fastcad perform. Developed by Steve Lord.
http://books.google.com/books?id=IT...AA#v=onepage&q=steve lord fastcad mde&f=false

From:
http://fastcad.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000488;p=0

mriddle
Administrator


posted May 01, 2000 09:17 PM
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Sadly enough I think he does point at the problem - we don't pay to advertise, we don't bribe store to stock our products, and reviews are based on ad revenues - we've been told by many magazines that they can't review a product that is not advertised. And in 20 years, we have never had advertising pay for itself.
As to participating in the 3d shootout, that will have to wait for the V7 3d product.

Both EasyCAD and FastCAD are viable products for getting the job done - something that many better known products fail at, in my opinion. The market today is essentially owned by ACAD due the the lock they have on the DWG format - and you can not add features to that file format to improve its low level of intellegence.

The real problem is that 3d is becoming a must have on the checklists, and yet most real dayd to day work is not 3d. I've yet to see real working direct 3d deminisioning in any product. This focus overlooks many real needs.

Our company suffered a real setback financially due a rough divorce, and that hurt in keeping our products well known. I am loathe to put money into advertising when all of my experience has shown it to have no where near the return to match its now exorbinent cost.

As to user groups - this BBS functions well. And because our products are an order of magnitude easier to learn, we have never been able to develop a market for training, and the *need* (as opposed to benefit) for user groups is much less that for products that require several years to master.

Its no secret that we and our customers would benefit tremendously from enough money to do a proper marketing job, but until some comes along, we will have to rely on our best source of sales - word of mouth. That, and not the magazines, have kept us in business for 20 years now - longer than any other current CAD company to the best of my knowledge.



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From: Phoenix AZ USA |

Apparently Steve Lord is deceased. His additions to Fastcad were outstanding.
http://translate.google.com/transla...ch?q=steve+lord+fastcad+mde&num=100&hl=en&lr=

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[User of the Sun]

I currently use a program called Smart Draw. I use it to for all of my drawings, either single or multi line. Its a basic program, but reasonable.

 

[tkb]

Why would you need AutoCad Electrical to just do control panel drawings?

I think if you are not using 3D then AutoCad LT would work if you just spent a little time making your blocks and templates.

AutoCad LT is under $1,000

 

[a.bisnath]

visio

visio

I've been using microsoft visio for years I think it is really good ,did many drawings with it .

 

[weressl]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but we'll give it a spin and see what happens. We are trying to generate "as built" drawings of some of our equipment and would like to use AutoCAD Electrical. The price tag for this software makes it out of reach for this project. Although the features available in the package justify its cost, I don't think we need all of the design and "what-if" features. Can anyone recommend a good software package that has the appropriate features to allow us to draw industrial control panels with a price tag less than the $5295 AutoCad product?
Thanx,
Jim

AutoCAD LT is more than sufficient for your use and it also assures that you can give your customers an electronic file that is in a format that is widely in use. (Often times modification is required to the existing package and the original drawing availablity is a great bonus for the user, so it is good business.)

 

[TxEngr]

I routinely use AutoCad LT for my electrical drawings. It is more than sufficient. What you're getting with the electrical package is all of the symbols for electrical components. It would be most cost effective to purchase the LT package and then look at 3rd party electrical symbol packages to use as an add-on the the ACad LT. And it will cost a lot less than $5K.

Or consider using the services of a local draftsman. This might be cheaper in the long run if you're only doing a small number of drawings. Plus your drawings will be done to a standard and you won't suffer the learning curve to learn any CAD program.

 

[Smart $]

I routinely use AutoCad LT for my electrical drawings. It is more than sufficient. What you're getting with the electrical package is all of the symbols for electrical components. It would be most cost effective to purchase the LT package and then look at 3rd party electrical symbol packages to use as an add-on the the ACad LT. And it will cost a lot less than $5K.

...

AutoCAD Electrical is not just AutoCAD with electrical symbols. It is substantially more than that...

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=13846963

 

[Karl H]

You should sub it out, it would be a lot cheaper. You could get AutoCAD LT
but someone has to learn to use it. That takes a lot of time and effort. Plus,
with a deadline, even more difficult.

 

[Karl H]

Just a side note: Am I the only one working in 3D,BIM,etc here? I shouldn't
say "working", I'm in a class learning.

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

Just a side note: Am I the only one working in 3D,BIM,etc here? I shouldn't
say "working", I'm in a class learning.

Not sure if BIM is worth the the time & effort to draw it up on the electrical side, maybe for big gear. When contractor get your drawings they always install things differently from what is shown to make profit.

 

[steve66]

Just a side note: Am I the only one working in 3D,BIM,etc here? I shouldn't
say "working", I'm in a class learning.

No we are using BIM also - for certain selected projects. Revit to be exact. Its the worst program ever written, which is too bad because it has a lot of real potenital.

From the electrical side, I don't see a lot of justification for 3D, especially on small projects. And large projects where there would be some real benefit just seem to get out of hand with BIM.

 

[kingpb]

The only value for 3D in electrical is large projects where you have cable tray and a lot of large trade size conduits runs. In that regard It is good for checking interferences with mechanical piping and structural steel,which avoids field construction issues. It also provides ability to estimate cable quantities for procurement.

But it comes at a heavy price, and needs to be accounted for in the design fee.

 

[steve66]

But it comes at a heavy price, and needs to be accounted for in the design fee.

I agree with that, but if you listen to the advertising hype, its supposed to make the design go faster and easier. I think it gives clients the impression that we should be able to design for less.

And incorporating a true information model takes even more time and effort.

Steve

 

[weressl]

The only value for 3D in electrical is large projects where you have cable tray and a lot of large trade size conduits runs. In that regard It is good for checking interferences with mechanical piping and structural steel,which avoids field construction issues. It also provides ability to estimate cable quantities for procurement.

But it comes at a heavy price, and needs to be accounted for in the design fee.

Lighting modeling, auto-routing and voltage drop calculations/optimization for loads are just some of the other benefits in complex plant layouts.

Not to mention that if everything else is done in 3D, but not electrical, then the 3D has to be 'flattened' to 2D for the E to work on it and this has to be redone EVERY time where there is significant change is made. It also works in reverse, you still have to show every piece of significant electrical item in 3D and keep that up to date. Lots of back and forth, manual and somebody will drop the ball at some point in the game.

 

[steve66]

Not to mention that if everything else is done in 3D, but not electrical, then the 3D has to be 'flattened' to 2D for the E to work on it and this has to be redone EVERY time where there is significant change is made. It also works in reverse, you still have to show every piece of significant electrical item in 3D and keep that up to date. Lots of back and forth, manual and somebody will drop the ball at some point in the game.

I've never had to "flatten" a 3D model. Any "plan" view of a 3D model can be made to look like a 2D plan, and one can easily draw 2D electrical objects on top of that.

Steve