what to do?

[boyle78]

I have a H.O. that wants a 20a, 240v and 20a, 120v branch circuits ran to a farm shed. I would just have a 20a, 240/120v curcuit, but the H.O. needs the 240 for woodworking equip. The 120v for lights/ gfi. That being said, according to 225.39 (b), I need a 30amp disco. Is that disco to be in the shed? Or in the dwelling?

 

[kbsparky]

Installing more than one circuit to an outbuilding would require a separate panel, complete with its own grounding electrode system, main disconnect, etc.

The main disco would have to be either outside, or inside close to the point of entry. Using a main breaker in a small panel usually satisfies that requirement.

 

[boyle78]

so that's how I should take it? If I do a 240/120v curcuit the 2 pole breaker would be my ocpd and disconn. means. If I do ANYTHING more, I pretty much need a sub panel with ground rods. If I'm doing a sub, I might as well sell the H.O. on a 60 amp feed for any future needs eh? Feeding a MB sub with 30amps seems silly.

 

[480sparky]

Run a 40a 120/240 feed out to a small panel. Branch from there.

 

[boyle78]

Run a 40a 120/240 feed out to a small panel. Branch from there.

If I go this route, the panel has to be at least 60 amp rated mb...am I correct?

 

[480sparky]

If I go this route, the panel has to be at least 60 amp rated mb...am I correct?

Why would it?

 

[infinity]

If I go this route, the panel has to be at least 60 amp rated mb...am I correct?

The disconnect would be required to be rated for a minimum of 60 amps and service rated. You could run a 40 amp feeder out to the panel and use a 60 amp main CB. The feeder would be protected at it's point of origin by a 40 amp OCPD.

225.31
225.36
225.39(D)

 

[Volta]

I have a H.O. that wants a 20a, 240v and 20a, 120v branch circuits ran to a farm shed. I would just have a 20a, 240/120v curcuit, but the H.O. needs the 240 for woodworking equip. The 120v for lights/ gfi. That being said, according to 225.39 (b), I need a 30amp disco. Is that disco to be in the shed? Or in the dwelling?

While I would prefer to see a panel, and it often would be required, IMO 225.30(D) will allow an additional circuit for different characteristics, as in voltage.

One branch 120 volts.
One branch 240 volts.
Each could use a 15 or 20 amp circuit and disconnect if loads allow.

Assuming this is not a farm, but a normal residence.

 

[mxslick]

Iwire's gonna fall out of his chair when he reads this, but:

What about using a MWBC?

It would count as a single circuit, no panel, disconnect or GEC required in the garage, and it is unlikely with the op's initial posted specs that the combination of the wood working gear and the lights would exceed the 20 amps per leg.

 

[boyle78]

Iwire's gonna fall out of his chair when he reads this, but:

What about using a MWBC?

It would count as a single circuit, no panel, disconnect or GEC required in the garage, and it is unlikely with the op's initial posted specs that the combination of the wood working gear and the lights would exceed the 20 amps per leg.

I thought about this option for simple ease...but knowing this H.O. he would prolly want to add a few more things in the future...and if I have to dig a trench and run the pipe, I might as well plan for the future...this shed that is to be powered is right next to an old barn that will be worked on in the future.

 

[boyle78]

[

Assuming this is not a farm, but a normal residence.[/QUOTE]


funny you mention that...the land WAS an old farm from the late 1800's, but is just a normal resi now!

 

[boyle78]

While I would prefer to see a panel, and it often would be required, IMO 225.30(D) will allow an additional circuit for different characteristics, as in voltage.

One branch 120 volts.
One branch 240 volts.
Each could use a 15 or 20 amp circuit and disconnect if loads allow.

Assuming this is not a farm, but a normal residence.

It WAS an old farm at one point, but now just a farm house and the old sheds on the land...

 

[mxslick]

I thought about this option for simple ease...but knowing this H.O. he would prolly want to add a few more things in the future...and if I have to dig a trench and run the pipe, I might as well plan for the future...this shed that is to be powered is right next to an old barn that will be worked on in the future.

Ah,ha. That would change my answer to a point..how about this: lay in a 1" conduit, pull in the MWBC for now, and if/when the load increases (or that barn comes online) you can pull new feeders, set in a subpanel and the grounds and go to town.

IMHO cost effective and allows future expansion.

 

[Volta]

I agree with Mxslick. Happy 1K!

 

[mxslick]

Thanks Volta..didn't even notice the 1k...wow.

 

[iwire]

Iwire's gonna fall out of his chair when he reads this, but:

What about using a MWBC?

Luckily for me I was laying down in my bed when I read that one. :grin:

 

[mxslick]

Luckily for me I was laying down in my bed when I read that one. :grin:

Beats a big cup of coffee, eh? :grin:

For those who may not know, I despise MWBC's in general because in my main line of work (high-end audio and cinema sound systems) MWBC's have caused me many headaches. I always specify (demand actually) dedicated neutrals for all my sound and video gear.

Bob and I have had many spirited discussions on the topic. :grin:

 

[petersonra]

I am a big fan of options.

If I am the HO in this case, I am going to want to run a feeder big enough to take care of anything I might put out there.

I think I'd run a 60A feeder out there and put in a 60A box. That ought to handle just about anything.

 

[mxslick]

I am a big fan of options.

If I am the HO in this case, I am going to want to run a feeder big enough to take care of anything I might put out there.

I think I'd run a 60A feeder out there and put in a 60A box. That ought to handle just about anything.

I agree 100% which I why I suggested the 1" pipe with the 20a MWBC to start off with..if the customer isn't willing to spend now for the 60a feeder and panel now. :grin:

Not all HO's are professional visionaries like us though!!