When is a splice allowed?

[roger]

OK, unused kia parts that were cut in pieces and welded back together.

If they are unaltered parts why would they need to cut them up just to weld them back together?

They would take these new parts and assemble them using only necessary welds.

As an aside, many customized vehicles have parts spliced together to get the end result which to the person that wants the customized vehicle is the desired end product, splices and all.

Roger

 

[iwire]

That "Kia price" included your cost for new Kia parts too. Now my new Kia shows up with some leftover old parts from a scrapyard I am going to be pissed off.

I do not think anyone has suggested going to the local scrap yard and yanking some scraps of wire out from under some old bath tubs and radiators. :roll:

IMO we have been talking about using left over cable. You know, say I had used 425' of a 500' spool so I have a left over 75' piece on that spool, I have a 33' section left on another spool etc.

 

[zog]

If they are unaltered parts why would they need to cut them up just to weld them back together?

And why would you use wire that has been cut in pieces and spliced back together when you are perfectly capable of obtaining the proper length. You just made my point.

 

[zog]

I do not think anyone has suggested going to the local scrap yard and yanking some scraps of wire out from under some old bath tubs and radiators. :roll:

IMO we have been talking about using left over cable. You know, say I had used 425' of a 500' spool so I have a left over 75' piece on that spool, I have a 33' section left on another spool etc.

That would be fine because the length needed is only 60 feet.

 

[roger]

And why would you use wire that has been cut in pieces and spliced back together when you are perfectly capable of obtaining the proper length. You just made my point.

Zog, you need to go look at the vehicle you drive, it has hundreds of welds, vehicles are not one piece creations. :roll:

Roger

 

[growler]

And why would you use wire that has been cut in pieces and spliced back together when you are perfectly capable of obtaining the proper length.

When you say proper length just what are you talking about? The proper length for a cable is the length needed to get from one accessable junction box to the next.

Most home runs are pulled without splices because it easier and faster to do it that way but it's not now nor has it ever been a requirement.

I have worked on a lot of jobs and very few have specified there would be no splices in the home runs. When this is done it's normally mission critical and in an industrial environment where vibration may effect splices if made. It's is above and beyond what is normally expected and they understand there is extra cost involved.

Anytime anyone wishes for a job to be above code for any reason it should be specified otherwise the code wins out where money is concerned. I'm not talking about little micky mouse basement remodels but cost is a major concern even on multi-million dollar jobs.

Just because you pay 10 million for a job doesn't mean that everything about the job will be the best possible it just means it was a big job to start with. If everything were speced to be the best then that 10 million dollar job could easily cost 20 million.

 

[fishin' electrician]

The way I see it, from a consumer point of view, I paid for a job to be done and would expect the electrician to pull the correct lenght of wire (Which I am sure I am paying for in the materials of the job) off a spool, not use scrap sections left over from another job. When you (Or anyone) does this to save money is that discount reflected on the customer invoice?

Where's the discount to give them? If I purchase a 10' cut of 6/3 and a 20' cut of 6/3, the invoice total will equal what I'd pay for a 30' hunk. As a matter of fact, the splice box, cover, and bugs/nuts will actually increase my material cost.

 

[lunalilo]

It's very interesting reading every all the comments in this thread... because I really didn't realize the important issues floating around...

So I should safely conclude then:

1) that the NEC does not, indeed, say anything against splicing...

Residential:

2) ...an inspector, assuming that he has the same mind set as all of the contractors and inpectors on this forum, has the power to not pass it, because it is not professional, and undemines the art of electrical, or...

Commerical:

3) ....although not in the NEC, has the authority not to pass something maybe even because he might use the "vibration" issue correct?

 

[roger]

It's very interesting reading every all the comments in this thread... because I really didn't realize the important issues floating around...

So I should safely conclude then:

1) that the NEC does not, indeed, say anything against splicing...

Residential:

2) ...an inspector, assuming that he has the same mind set as all of the contractors and inpectors on this forum, has the power to not pass it, because it is not professional, and undemines the art of electrical, or...

Commerical:

3) ....although not in the NEC, has the authority not to pass something maybe even because he might use the "vibration" issue correct?

1 Yes
2 No an inspector can only enforce the adopted code, anything else is an abuse of power.
3 No he / she does not have that authority, if they are trying to use that they are abusing their power.

Think about a cop writing tickets on their personal opinions instead of the written laws.

Roger

 

[lunalilo]

1 Yes
2 No an inspector can only enforce the adopted code, anything else is an abuse of power.
3 No he / she does not have that authority, if they are trying to use that they are abusing their power.

Think about a cop writing tickets on their personal opinions instead of the written laws.

Roger

I can only ride on the knowledge "blown in my direction" because I am still learning,

I was taught that unlike the written law, NEC is not quite law, although written law in some states because of it's widely used guidelines, but rather as you said, "adopted" in others... just what I was taught, and that in Hawaii there is no official adoption report as of yet (when my instructed told mine in 2009) but still "pressumed". Places like Nebraska and even Montana have no real adoption report.

So if this is true, doesn't this in fact mean that some insepctors in these states are indeed are acting on what they think because of this "presumption" and lack of adoption?

 

[iwire]

We have another member from Hawaii, macmikeman he can probably tell you the rules around there. He has been an EC there for a long time.

 

[jumper]

Regarding 3. that is a very special app that will be addressed by an EE and not an inspector enforcing the NEC.

Where are you, if I may ask?

 

[lunalilo]

Honolulu Hawaii. Thanks for all the replies, it gives a me a very "broken door" into the enviroment of the minds of electrical contracting, I really appreciate, because alot of people above me hate answering my questions.

 

[aftershock]

I have made splices in homeruns and branch circuits when I have had long runs and have been short on wire. I hate doing it, but it IS allowed. This is where common sense comes in.
Im not gonna dig up as much scrap wire to make a run when it would be cheaper to run it continuous considering the labor and materials involved. Mainly labor.

I have had to move panels in remodel jobs thus making the initial homeruns too short to reach the new panel location. I will try to use a switch or recep box to make splices to extend but that dont always work. Im glad I am able to place a JB where needed, when needed to get a circuit, feeder completed if it comes to it. Let's be real, you can nitpick the ability to do this just like you can place 1000 receps on one circuit, but if you have common sense, then you will know better what to do.

 

[K2500]

I really appreciate, because a lot of people above me hate answering my questions.

Learn everything you can about what you do, knowledge is power.
It's entirely possible that down the road these same guys are gonna hate calling you boss.