Second DMM suggestions needed

[PetrosA]

I recently upgraded my clamp meter to an Agilent U1211 which is a brand new product. It's the cheapest of three that they make, has the least bells and whistles and since it doesn't read DC amps, it doesn't have a clamp that measures Hall effect which gives it a little more accuracy (in the specs) over the other two models. Overall I'm very happy with it, but...

I did a lot of specs comparisons before buying, but I was looking mostly at AC voltage and current accuracy. I never thought to look at resistance ranges, assuming that an "industrial" meter in that price range would "have what it takes." Anyway, it turns out that this meter only reads to 4 k ohms which isn't enough to take readings on the thyristor sensors for floor heat T-stats. Not realizing this today, I almost stopped a wet bed from getting finished till I could figure out why I wasn't getting the expected reading. I've been planning on getting a second DMM (not clamp) and now it looks like I'll have to get it sooner rather than later. I'd like to keep my budget to a max of $150. Do you guys have any recommendations for a decent CAT IV @ 600V meter in this price range?

Thanks

 

[dbuckley]

Without haviung an answer to your question, I'd just note that its outrageous for a company of Agilent's reputation to describe this clamp as a "full featured digital multimeter". Sure, theres lots of nice features, but resistance up to a few meg is a basic function that any DMM should have.

Agilent are what became of the test and measurement company HP, before HP became just a computer and printer company.

 

[PetrosA]

Without haviung an answer to your question, I'd just note that its outrageous for a company of Agilent's reputation to describe this clamp as a "full featured digital multimeter". Sure, theres lots of nice features, but resistance up to a few meg is a basic function that any DMM should have.

Agilent are what became of the test and measurement company HP, before HP became just a computer and printer company.

I agree completely. It actually embarrassed the heck out of me to call the t-stat manufacturer's customer service and have the guy suggest that "maybe your meter doesn't read as high as it needs to," and have him turn out to be right. At $250, it's not a cheap instrument and while not top-of-the-line, it's not so cheap that I would expect something basic like this not to be included. Luckily I wasn't the only one at the job with a meter and we were able to give the tile guys the green light. Other than this episode today, I've been really pleased with the meter but I'm starting to think that maybe I should have spent another hundred and gotten the U1213 instead. Oh well, too late now.

 

[wptski]

I recently upgraded my clamp meter to an Agilent U1211 which is a brand new product. It's the cheapest of three that they make, has the least bells and whistles and since it doesn't read DC amps, it doesn't have a clamp that measures Hall effect which gives it a little more accuracy (in the specs) over the other two models. Overall I'm very happy with it, but...

I did a lot of specs comparisons before buying, but I was looking mostly at AC voltage and current accuracy. I never thought to look at resistance ranges, assuming that an "industrial" meter in that price range would "have what it takes." Anyway, it turns out that this meter only reads to 4 k ohms which isn't enough to take readings on the thyristor sensors for floor heat T-stats. Not realizing this today, I almost stopped a wet bed from getting finished till I could figure out why I wasn't getting the expected reading. I've been planning on getting a second DMM (not clamp) and now it looks like I'll have to get it sooner rather than later. I'd like to keep my budget to a max of $150. Do you guys have any recommendations for a decent CAT IV @ 600V meter in this price range?

Thanks

I don't think that you'll find a CAT IV 600V DMM for $150 Max but I could be wrong. A CAT III 600V for $150 for sure.

In the Fluke line to get CAT IV 600V, your looking at a 177 which is over $150 for sure.

 

[ptonsparky]

Milwaukee has a new line of DMMs. Don't remember the pricing.

 

[PetrosA]

Milwaukee has a new line of DMMs. Don't remember the pricing.

I looked at them a few months back when I was researching mine and I seem to remember they had below average accuracy.

 

[gar]

100415-0806 EST

Read your instruction manual. The specifications on page 71 imply the maximum resistance range is 40 megohms. Figure out how to change ranges or get it into autorange.

Badly written manual. All the safety, etc. garbage at the beginning needs to be at the rear in an appendix. The specifications and quick reference should be at the beginning.

.

 

[ELA]

or like he already discovered , buy the U1213A

 

[gar]

100515-1229 EST

In the process of writing my last post my computer crashed and I did not have the manual open after reloading and missed that the 1211 and 1213 were in the same manual and that there were gross differences.

Being forced into Microsoft's latest updates I am having a substantial number of crashes, complete lockups.

Why would any quality manufacturer (HP used to be a quality manufacturer and why did they come up with such a dumb new name), put out such an inferior meter with respect to resistance range. A Simpson 260 from 60 years ago has a much wider resistance range, and Simpson has not changed their name.

.

 

[PetrosA]

I dug out my first digital multimeter, an RCC-350 that I bought in 1990 and it has a better resistance range as well. I don't like using it for line voltages since it's not CAT rated at all but I guess I'll have to use it as a backup for now. Ridiculous.

 

[cadpoint]

Momma always says, “If your going to travel, Go First Class!". My own spin on this is to add, “Don’t forget to enjoy yourself”. That is of course when I hear of someone smart enough to try to enjoy themselves! Momma’s principle can be universally applied, IMO

I’m sorry to read here that you missed some desirable aspect with the purchase of a new toy, see above.

This thread opened another aged learned thought on this process, I even had to go look at my AMP meter which is also just AC in respects to available resistance reading.

But the problem with a DMM without a doughnut is you have to get in-line with a resistance reading, sounds like more work, more toys.

We all avoid the four letter words right? I just say, “PTL”…

 

[PetrosA]

Momma always says, ?If your going to travel, Go First Class!". My own spin on this is to add, ?Don?t forget to enjoy yourself?. That is of course when I hear of someone smart enough to try to enjoy themselves! Momma?s principle can be universally applied, IMO

I?m sorry to read here that you missed some desirable aspect with the purchase of a new toy, see above.

This thread opened another aged learned thought on this process, I even had to go look at my AMP meter which is also just AC in respects to available resistance reading.

But the problem with a DMM without a doughnut is you have to get in-line with a resistance reading, sounds like more work, more toys.

We all avoid the four letter words right? I just say, ?PTL??

I kind of felt like I was going first class with this meter as it was. It's their cheapest, and costs $250, well above what you'd pay for a low end Fluke (and it turns out even many of their better ones max out at 6000 Ohms). Regardless, I think I can state that any meter that can't read into the 10s of kilo ohms is going to be an issue at some point. It's the nature of our work that we need to be able to test those values and it shouldn't be that we have to buy the most expensive meter to do it.

 

[ELA]

It may be more the nature of the type of meter you purchase?
You are looking at Clamp meters.
If you look at the Fluke site many of their clamp meters also have a lower resistance reading limit.

You can buy some pretty inexpensive DMM with higher resistance scales.

Maybe they manufacturers are predicting that the clamp meter type is more likely to be used in environments not requiring high resistance readings?

 

[gar]

100516-1724 EST

I think some ignorant marketing or bean-counter type made the decision on specifications. I doubt in the days when Hewlett and Packard ran the company that such a stupid decision would have been made.

PetrosA:

In the future on any important purchase read and study the specifications of the product. Look for limitations relative to your needs. Then try to get a useful demo, and maybe a purchase agreement that allows you to evaluate the device with some reasonable return policy.

I also suggest that you write to the president of Agilent, complain about the deficiency, and indicate that you have been telling others how unsatisfactory the instrument is in this respect, and that some others agree.

.

 

[ptonsparky]

I looked at them a few months back when I was researching mine and I seem to remember they had below average accuracy.

From your experience is not having the capability at all better or worse than below average accuracy?

 

[wptski]

It may be more the nature of the type of meter you purchase?
You are looking at Clamp meters.
If you look at the Fluke site many of their clamp meters also have a lower resistance reading limit.

You can buy some pretty inexpensive DMM with higher resistance scales.

Maybe they manufacturers are predicting that the clamp meter type is more likely to be used in environments not requiring high resistance readings?

Fluke's clamp meters have a max resistance limit of 6,000 ohms.

 

[PetrosA]

100516-1724 EST

I think some ignorant marketing or bean-counter type made the decision on specifications. I doubt in the days when Hewlett and Packard ran the company that such a stupid decision would have been made.

PetrosA:

In the future on any important purchase read and study the specifications of the product. Look for limitations relative to your needs. Then try to get a useful demo, and maybe a purchase agreement that allows you to evaluate the device with some reasonable return policy.

I also suggest that you write to the president of Agilent, complain about the deficiency, and indicate that you have been telling others how unsatisfactory the instrument is in this respect, and that some others agree.

.

That's good advice, GAR. I didn't really pay attention to the resistance specs because it's never been a problem for me yet. I had a EX 830 before this meter, and that covered the range fine. I also think that because my last meter covered the range, I never even paid attention to what that range was... I just checked the tag on the sensor, made sure I was in spec, and forgot about it. I couldn't have told you what the specced numbers were five minutes later. My bad for sure.

Honestly, I never even considered a demo unit or testing period but I should for the future. The company I bought mine from has been great so far ( www.hensleytech.com ) and I think if I pushed hard enough, they'd let me do a return but since I was planning on getting a second DMM anyway so I could do voltage and amps simultaneously, I contacted them and we're working on choosing that now.

I wrote to Agilent over the weekend, not to the president (I don't have his email) but we'll see if there's some reaction.

From your experience is not having the capability at all better or worse than below average accuracy?

That's a tough question. My last meter, an EX 830 had all kinds of ranges, temp, IR temp, etc. but it wasn't ever really accurate and it got to the point where I didn't trust it on any range or measurement. Volts would be off compared to other meters and temp was way off. The Agilents come with a calibration certificate so at least I know where I started, and can keep checking calibration as time goes on. If a meter is made with junky components, has low accuracy to begin with and drifts, it's not worth the plastic its case is made from. If I need to get a few good meters to do my work, that's what I'd rather do.

 

[wptski]

I ran across a post in another forum about this CAT IV 600V TRMS DMM: Klein MM2000 for like $105! Specs state resistance in two ranges to 40M but only down to 400 ohms.