Kitchen Receptacles

[Castrovinci]

All,
I am currently registered to take my NJ electrical exam in October. My experience is more in Utility (Pole/distribution lines), Industrial (400HP motors) and commercial (Lighting). My residential experience severely lacks, not to mention I really don't install receptacles much either so I have been trying to focus on most of the code questions in the residential direction. There is one section that I am very confused about and I would like for someone to clarify this for me.

Two 1500VA small appliance circuits for the kitchen



Can you put other receptacles on these circuits?
Can you put lighting on these circuits for the kitchen?
Can you mix the dining room with these?

In article 210.52 B (2) it says no other outlets, but then (3) says you can have other receptacles on them.

Maybe I am confusing Outlet with receptacle as being the same? What is the exact difference? It?s used so loosely on site.

Thanks so much!
-Tony

 

[Steve Beranek]

Other outlets within the kitchen can be used. I would not put the lighting on with this circuit. Other outlets outside the room, not allowed.

 

[charlie b]

Maybe I am confusing Outlet with receptacle as being the same? What is the exact difference? It’s used so loosely on site.

That is indeed the essence of your confusion. In common, conversational English, especially when talking with non-professionals (which is to say our clients, the homeowners), when you say "outlet," they think "receptacle." But in the language of the profession, in the language of the NEC, an outlet is essentially (but not quite exactly) the 2x4 or 4x4 box into which you install some electrical device. More exactly, an outlet is the tip of the wires that enter the box from within the walls, and that attach to an electrical device. Take a look at the definition of "outlet," in Article 100.

A receptacle might go into an outlet box, and might be connected to wires that enter that box from within the walls, and you create thereby a "receptacle outlet." But an outlet can also be created by a light fixture that is hung from an outlet box in the ceiling, or by a smoke detector attached to an outlet box in the ceiling, or even by a hard wired connection inside an outlet box though which the dishwasher or garbage disposal receive power.

A small appliance branch circuit can only be used to supply receptacle outlets, and even then only in certain rooms. The kitchen is one, the dining room is another, a breakfast nook would be another. The list appears in 210.52(B)(1).

 

[Steve Beranek]

Good catch there Charles, but I would like to expand, 210.52(B)(1) "...the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.52(C) ... shall serve all wall and floor receptacles outlets covered by 210.52(A). Then

210.52(C)(1) Wall Countertop Spaces.

210.52(B)(3) "Additioanl small appliance branch circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).

So I read the two required circuits must be used for only items covered in 210.52(A) for Items in 210.52(C) and in (3) it allows addtional circuits to control others.

Input ?

 

[Steve Beranek]

Ah, just a little more.

In section 210.52(C) is not just about Countertop its about all the kitchen. So

210.52(B)(1) says 2 circuits that supply the items kitchen items located in (C), and 210.52 explains the spacing for floor receptacles, if they are located in the kitchen area.

Correct ?

 

[Steve Beranek]

Wrong wrong, I see now in the commentary, a great example of the two circuits feeding outlets in pantry and dinning room.

 

[Castrovinci]

Wrong wrong, I see now in the commentary, a great example of the two circuits feeding outlets in pantry and dinning room.

Charlie/Steve,
Thanks so much for your help. Much needed clarification, especially on the outlet/rect.

Steve,

210.52(B)(3) "Additioanl small appliance branch circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).

Wouldn't this allow you to do dining room on the same circuit? Am I misreading you or was that a joke?

 

[hurk27]

Charlie/Steve,
Thanks so much for your help. Much needed clarification, especially on the outlet/rect.

Steve,

210.52(B)(3) "Additionally small appliance branch circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).

Wouldn't this allow you to do dining room on the same circuit? Am I misreading you or was that a joke?

Basically, the "two or more" small appliance branch circuits can supply all the receptacle outlets in the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, including a clock receptacle, stove receptacle, and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.210.52(B)(1)

But the kitchen counter surfaces must be also served by two or more SBA circuits as well, but these two circuits can also serve the above areas also. 210.52(B)(3)

so what the NEC is basically saying is you can run the two 20 amp SBA circuits to the counter then use these two circuits to also feed the other circuits listed in 210.52(B)(1) but in experience most electricians would not do this because of call backs on tripping breakers, not a good way to start customer relations.

I generally run about 5 20 amp SBA's in a kitchen depending upon what is installed. and this does not include circuits for micros, dish washers, or disposals, as these are not SBA circuits

 

[bgeorge]

I believe that AFCI protection is necessary in the dining room also...

 

[KP2]

I'm loosing a bet over a candy bar and this thread supports my argument, however that was until I went to the "05" hand book and in the explanatory portion of 210.52(B)(1) it clearly states that DISHWASHERS, DISPOSALS, AND HOODS are not to be on the SABC. My argument was that I would never put the dishwasher on the SABC but it was acceptable.

Any Thoughts?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I'm loosing a bet over a candy bar and this thread supports my argument, however that was until I went to the "05" hand book and in the explanatory portion of 210.52(B)(1) it clearly states that DISHWASHERS, DISPOSALS, AND HOODS are not to be on the SABC. My argument was that I would never put the dishwasher on the SABC but it was acceptable.

Any Thoughts?

SABC serve the kitchen countertop recep. not the dishwasher, disposal, etc. They may serve other recep. in the kitchen that are specified in 210.52(B)(1), dining room, etc

 

[MR. S]

The way I look at it 210.52(B)(1) says it shall serve all wall and counter top outlets.You owe this person a candy bar. M&Ms are not a candy bar, but that will do.

 

[KP2]

The way I look at it 210.52(B)(1) says it shall serve all wall and counter top outlets.You owe this person a candy bar. M&Ms are not a candy bar, but that will do.

I would have to agree.

Plain or Peanut????

 

[arits74]

our local inspector requires us to have 5 circuits minimum in the kitchen,1 for fridge,1 for vent hood,1 for dishwasher,disposal,and 2 for counter top receptacles.he does not allow the dining or any other receptacles on with any of the kitchen circuits,on the typical small house with a back porch or deck that backs up to the kitchen we used to put an out side receptacle on with one of the kitchen GFI but the inspector got wise to that .

 

[romba_one]

I seem to recall that each SABC adds 1500VA to the load calcultaions. Does anybody here ever have to take that into account when they do a remodel or add circuits in a kitchen/SABC area?

 

[cadpoint]

All,
I am currently registered to take my NJ electrical exam in October. ... My residential experience severely lacks, not to mention I really don't install receptacles much either so I have been trying to focus on most of the code questions in the residential direction. There is one section that I am very confused about and I would like for someone to clarify this for me.

Two 1500VA small appliance circuits for the kitchen

Can you put other receptacles on these circuits?
Can you put lighting on these circuits for the kitchen?
Can you mix the dining room with these?

In article 210.52 B (2)

Thanks so much!
-Tony

I'm going to give two possible answers Google image 210.52(B) Be it a picture is worth a thousand words.

My understanding is that NJ has a good community college system that might teach residential wiring those that book will be at your local community college. If this is not the case then try this page. I believe the one at the bottom was the same author I learned about residential from. Electrical Wiring.

I'm a true believer in good books, and it could be a good investment in your cause. Good Luck in your pursuits!

Welcome to the Forum!!!