Dryer and Range on same circuit

[Jim W in Tampa]

What i see here is a breaker triping often because the user is not living in GREEN ACRES. They will keep forgetting that they cant run 2 burners because the dryer is still running. No no real shock or fire hazard but if a dryer is sitting there and pluged in i would say that receptacle is dedicated and owners manuel probably asked for it.
Now if you care to install a DPDT switch then i would be ok with this but it is far from professional way to do this for 2 items that will get used often.
Just why would you not simply run another dedicated circuit ?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I have a costumer who does not want to pay me to run a circuit for a second range in the basement. She wants me to tap off of the dryer circuit.

I was looking through 210 and from all that I saw, I am probably not allowed to do that unless I put each on a receptacle.

I really don't want to do it. Are there any code issues that you think I should be aware of:-?

Thanks,

Is the dryer 3 wire or 4 wire ? If 3 you are stoped instantly.

 

[LarryFine]

Is the dryer 3 wire or 4 wire ? If 3 you are stoped instantly.

Why? The same rules apply to both.

 

[david luchini]

Rather simple, if i am the installer and the owner starts telling me how to do my job i pick up my tools and walk out. I do not need there instructions or help. If they know how to do it then great they can. Why call an electrician ? Do you go to a doctors office and tell him how to do his job. If what they are requesting does not sound professional to me i will not do it.

If someone hires you to install a 200A service for their house, would you install a 100A service because that's big enough for the house size and you don't want them telling you how to do your job? Seems silly. If they hire you to add an additional receptacle to an existing circuit, and if doing so doesn't violate the code, then I don't see any issue.

If they told you to violate the code, such as adding a 20A receptacle to a 30A branch circuit, then I'd see your point. But with the info from the OP, we haven't determined that the owner asked the electrician to do anything wrong.

And yes, if I went to the doctor with shoulder pain and he wanted to take out my gall bladder, I'd probably tell him how to do his job.

 

[lunalilo]

Wouldn't it be ingenius..

Wouldn't it be ingenius..

I always thought it would be a great idea to setup a range and dryer with switch in the front for triggering a contacter... you know for use on the same circuit... you go to one dryer *contacter switches... go to the other dryer... conter switches... so essentially only one dryer would ever be on at once...

...but maybe that's just crazy, but could that work?

 

[david luchini]

Just why would you not simply run another dedicated circuit ?

Let's say the owner wanted another 30A receptacle 10' from the existing receptacle, and it was fine with code. Would you really run a new dedicated circuit, if say the distance to the panel was 100'. You'd be costing the homeowner the cost of 90' of cabling and a new circuit breaker that wasn't required.

 

[mxslick]

Is the dryer 3 wire or 4 wire ? If 3 you are stoped instantly.

Why? The same rules apply to both.

Only if your AHJ will grandfather in the addition of the new recept for the range, and IIRC if you add onto that existing circuit Code requires it to be brought up to date with a 4-wire feed.

As for the DPDT switch idea, I wouldn't consider it a hack job Jim, but one that is very impractical and wouldn't a 30a DPDT switch cost more than the wire and breaker to add the circuit in the first place? (Not counting labor.)

To the OP's question I wouldn't do it the way the HO wants either. Too many pitfalls and they would blame me every time the breaker tripped when they tried to cook and dry clothes at the same time.:roll:

 

[david luchini]

The only thing that I can find that would limit the installation of the range onto the existing dryer circuit is 210.19(1). "The branch circuit conductors shall have an ampacity not less than the maximum load to be served."

Assuming an existing dryer circuit that is 30A, 120/240V, and the dryer is rated at 5000VA or less (like most dryers) then the load for the dryer shall be 5000VA per 220.54. The range, using the 80% demand factor from 220.55 (less than 3.5kw rating) could then be a maximum of 2750VA.

2750VAx80%=2200VA. 2200VA for the range plus 5000VA for the dryer gives a max load of 7200VA which at 240V is 30A.

As long as the range in the OP is not larger than 2750VA at 240V, then connecting it to the existing dryer circuit should be OK. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Let's say the owner wanted another 30A receptacle 10' from the existing receptacle, and it was fine with code. Would you really run a new dedicated circuit, if say the distance to the panel was 100'. You'd be costing the homeowner the cost of 90' of cabling and a new circuit breaker that wasn't required.

Depends on what the first one is being used for. Did do something similar for an old guy that as hobby rebuilds corvette. He wanted 2 nd outlet on other side of garage for his welder. Now that changes things as he only has 1 welder. First is not using 50% or anything if nothing pluged in.

 

[david luchini]

To the OP's question I wouldn't do it the way the HO wants either. Too many pitfalls and they would blame me every time the breaker tripped when they tried to cook and dry clothes at the same time.:roll:

mxslick, you're assuming that the range is large enough to cause the breaker to trip, which hasn't been determined from the OP.

P.S. How was the renaissance fair?

 

[david luchini]

Depends on what the first one is being used for. Did do something similar for an old guy that as hobby rebuilds corvette. He wanted 2 nd outlet on other side of garage for his welder. Now that changes things as he only has 1 welder. First is not using 50% or anything if nothing pluged in.

Sure, but what if his buddy shows up and plugs a second welder into the 2nd outlet so they can work at the same time? Now you've got two welders running on conductors sized for only one. You can't protect against stupid.

 

[iwire]

you're assuming that

It is what we do here. :grin:

 

[david luchini]

It is what we do here. :grin:

Amen, brother!

 

[LarryFine]

If I was asked to install a second dryer receptacle in a house because they wanted the option of moving the laundry upstairs, say, I would have no problem wiring it on the existing circuit if there was a reason to do so, with the explanation that it won't be capable of running two dryers.

 

[OTT2]

I really don't want to do it. Are there any code issues that you think I should be aware of:-?

Thanks,

How about article 220? If we must size our branch circuit loads per 220.10, 220.14(B) permits 220.54 to be used for dryers and 220.55 to be used for ranges.
If you can do this calculation and arrive at less than 30 amps, good luck, then it's permitted. If you can't then it's not.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

If I was asked to install a second dryer receptacle in a house because they wanted the option of moving the laundry upstairs, say, I would have no problem wiring it on the existing circuit if there was a reason to do so, with the explanation that it won't be capable of running two dryers.

And that is the begining of disaster. They sell the house and forget to tell the buyer. They rightfully assume they can have 2 dryers and now go after everyone they can because it should be assumed if it is there that it will work. They might even have hire a HI and he would not do more than check voltage. To me this is just unprofessional and for reasons i stated already think violation. We do not permit this for a dishwasher and garbage disposal if either would need 50% so why here. The dryer will easily be over 15 amps most are about 20 amps plus few more for side with motor

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Jim-- what disaster.. I don't advocate for this install but that is what the OCPD is for.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim-- what disaster.. I don't advocate for this install but that is what the OCPD is for.

Disaster is when buyer sees something and finds out its a hack job.
If the customer in the OP sells this house what happens ? Buyer sees range and water heater and should assume they work. Sounds like they are trying to create an apartment and getting cheap. Might do something like this in my own home if i was in full control but it sure is not good.

 

[hybwolf]

My take is that the maximum load would be when both the dryer and range are used at the same time. Home owner can tell you that they don't plan to use both at same time but what prevents that from happening? So I would say no if the combined load is more then the existing dryer circuit rating.

210.23 and 210.24

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

My take is that the maximum load would be when both the dryer and range are used at the same time. Home owner can tell you that they don't plan to use both at same time but what prevents that from happening? So I would say no if the combined load is more then the existing dryer circuit rating.

210.23 and 210.24

And chances are hight that if only using 1 burner that it will not trip.