Untested breakers

[ElectricianJeff]

I ran into this yesterday. I needed to add a circuit for a newly enclosed rear deck. I particually liked the #14 on the 60 amp breaker in the upper left. I did my standard FPE speal and talked the HO into a 200 amp upgrade. However he wants me to wait until July when he has the money.

I went ahead and replaced the offending circuits with used "untested" breakers I have from previous tearouts. I noted the bill accordingly. Now I am second guessing my actions because of liabilty concerns.

Just curious as to how others deal we these situations. Do you leave well enough alone to avoid owning the service?

I also couldn't help but wonder if this house were to have burned would this be chalked up to another FPE failure?

 

[satcom]

I ran into this yesterday. I needed to add a circuit for a newly enclosed rear deck. I particually liked the #14 on the 60 amp breaker in the upper left. I did my standard FPE speal and talked the HO into a 200 amp upgrade. However he wants me to wait until July when he has the money.

I went ahead and replaced the offending circuits with used "untested" breakers I have from previous tearouts. I noted the bill accordingly. Now I am second guessing my actions because of liabilty concerns.

Just curious as to how others deal we these situations. Do you leave well enough alone to avoid owning the service?

I also couldn't help but wonder if this house were to have burned would this be chalked up to another FPE failure?

Usually when they tell us to wait until they have the money, we never hear from them again, even if we do a proper repair with new breakers, and they are usually the ones to kick and scream, the loudest, if any problems come about, just protect yourself, and be sure you have a permit for the new circuit you installed, and the breakers are new, I would never risk my living, and license , on any job.

 

[zog]

I ran into this yesterday. I needed to add a circuit for a newly enclosed rear deck. I particually liked the #14 on the 60 amp breaker in the upper left. I did my standard FPE speal and talked the HO into a 200 amp upgrade. However he wants me to wait until July when he has the money.

I went ahead and replaced the offending circuits with used "untested" breakers I have from previous tearouts. I noted the bill accordingly. Now I am second guessing my actions because of liabilty concerns.

Just curious as to how others deal we these situations. Do you leave well enough alone to avoid owning the service?

I also couldn't help but wonder if this house were to have burned would this be chalked up to another FPE failure?

You are assuming the liability by using used untested breakers, no way to know if they will trip if a fault occurs. Now new breakers are not tested either but are "batch tested" and warantied by the manufacture.

I am in the "used" breaker business, we don't touch anything residential, or <480V <400A. It costs more to propery inspect, recondition, and test the small ones.

 

[readydave8]

Is a new breaker still new once it's in panel and turned on?

 

[ElectricianJeff]

I did what I thought was right. The customer would not spring for new breakers in a panel he will be replacing. I'd like to think I left the conditions safer than as found and pictured above.

Considering the facts here I wanted to know what others would of done. The only alternative that I'm seeing is to note the invoice and move on. I wasn't confortable whit that either.

Thanks for you responses.

 

[ItsHot]

Is a new breaker still new once it's in panel and turned on?

Everybody drives a used car!

 

[growler]

I ran into this yesterday. I needed to add a circuit for a newly enclosed rear deck. I particually liked the #14 on the 60 amp breaker in the upper left.

I went ahead and replaced the offending circuits with used "untested" breakers I have from previous tearouts. I noted the bill accordingly. Now I am second guessing my actions because of liabilty concerns.

Just curious as to how others deal we these situations. Do you leave well enough alone to avoid owning the service?

New circuit for enclosed deck would require a permit and a new breaker for that circuit. This inspection covers you for the new circuit.

If you want to be a nice guy and replace the 60 Amp breaker with a couple of 15 Amp breakers to keep the guy's house from burning until you can install a new service there is no reason to note it on the bill. In my opinion any correct sized breaker is going to be better than one at 4 times the correct size but those breakers would just magically appear and have nothing to do with me.

Being innocent in court just means they can't prove you are gulity. No reason to leave any proof. Charge enough for the other work so the breakers can be a gift from the tooth fairy.

It may not be completely honest but then again I'm not trying to become a saint.

 

[satcom]

New circuit for enclosed deck would require a permit and a new breaker for that circuit. This inspection covers you for the new circuit.

If you want to be a nice guy and replace the 60 Amp breaker with a couple of 15 Amp breakers to keep the guy's house from burning until you can install a new service there is no reason to note it on the bill. In my opinion any correct sized breaker is going to be better than one at 4 times the correct size but those breakers would just magically appear and have nothing to do with me.

Being innocent in court just means they can't prove you are gulity. No reason to leave any proof. Charge enough for the other work so the breakers can be a gift from the tooth fairy.

It may not be completely honest but then again I'm not trying to become a saint.

Yes, the permit and the inspection for the enclosed deck would cover him for the new circuit, and I would have handled the billing a bit different, and added in the cost of the additional breakers, and used new ones, we may buy used cares, but replacing used breaks in a used car? the issue with this customer is, he may never hear from him again once the deck circuit is done and working.

 

[charlietuna]

IF(?) i installed used breakers as a favor, i would have never noted it on the bill. Thats asking for trouble in my opinion.

 

[mxslick]

What a hack job on the original install..look at the way overstripped wires on those breakers and the wonderful 180 degree bend on the feeders to the main.

And is every circuit in the house wired with #10? Why is every breaker 30 amps? I don't see any 20 amp breakers...oh wait, it's FPE so it doesn't matter as they'll never trip anyway. :grin:

Was this ever inspected? I have my doubts. And if the house burned this panel would be suspect #1.

This is a prime example of FPE at it's best worst. :grin:

Glad it will be replaced. I wouldn't wait until July though.

 

[LarryFine]

And is every circuit in the house wired with #10?

It almost looks like it. Maybe it's copper-clad aluminum.


FP and aluminum. Nice combination, eh?

 

[mxslick]

It almost looks like it. Maybe it's copper-clad aluminum.


FP and aluminum. Nice combination, eh?

Larry, even #10 aluminum has to be protected at 20 amps. :grin:

And cu-clad al is supposedly very stable and doesn't have the issues of early all-al wire.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

If one is installing a used breaker taken from another panel and somthing happens due to that breaker, your kindness in trying to help the homeowner will be overlooked and your goose will be cooked. I have spent enough time in court to know you would not stand a chance.


Sometimes it is better to walk away if the person cannot pay to fix the situation correctly.

Remember this:
"they are never your friend when something goes wrong!"