small vfd repair

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Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I'd be curious to hear this also.

We rebuild some AB 1336's that are around 3-5HP but only because we can't buy them new. They're are several other identical VFD's in a master/slave setup that run the drive motors on a milking carousel, so it's not as simple as just changing one out. I don't remember the exact price but I know it's a few hundred dollars to rebuild these ones.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Years ago most drive mfrs went to using a set of power devices integrated into a single unit, called an IPM, Integrated Power Module. Up to about 10HP, they are about the size of a credit card, or better a stack 0f 10 credit cards (thickness). Inside that single unit are the 6 diodes for the bridge rectifier, the 6 transistors and the pulse firing control for the transistors, plus some smaller ones also throw in the DB Chopper and control. You cannot open it up and replace any individual device, there essentially are no individual devices any longer. It's all one monolithic silicon structure. When it goes, it's gone.
mitsubishi_intelligent.jpg


The rest of the VFD is just a PCB with the logic, which is giving firing instructions directly from the mP or DSP, the caps, the HMI, Comms and I/O, usually on one board. The board connections to the IPM are surface mount, no wires or cables with connectors to un-do for servicing. So the time it takes to even investigate a problem exceeds the value of the drive. IMPs are used in larger drives too by the way, but they are connected with cables so they are easier to replace. But you still have the issue of not being able to replace only one specific failed device, you have to replace the whole shebang.
569ipm.jpg
576ipmopen.jpg
577goop.jpg


Older small drives that used discrete IGBTs and separate diode bridges are technically repairable, but with the advent of cheaper smaller IPMs, discrete IGBTs are harder and harder to find, translate: expensive. Then you have to deal with the relatively finite life of the capacitors, so even if you go to the time and expense to repair a power component on a small drive, it's probably getting long in the tooth if it still had IGBTs, so it isn't going to last much longer anyway.

Kind of like being hit with a $2,000 vet bill on a 16 year old dog...
 

76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
Years ago most drive mfrs went to using a set of power devices integrated into a single unit, called an IPM, Integrated Power Module. Up to about 10HP, they are about the size of a credit card, or better a stack 0f 10 credit cards (thickness). Inside that single unit are the 6 diodes for the bridge rectifier, the 6 transistors and the pulse firing control for the transistors, plus some smaller ones also throw in the DB Chopper and control. You cannot open it up and replace any individual device, there essentially are no individual devices any longer. It's all one monolithic silicon structure. When it goes, it's gone.
mitsubishi_intelligent.jpg


The rest of the VFD is just a PCB with the logic, which is giving firing instructions directly from the mP or DSP, the caps, the HMI, Comms and I/O, usually on one board. The board connections to the IPM are surface mount, no wires or cables with connectors to un-do for servicing. So the time it takes to even investigate a problem exceeds the value of the drive. IMPs are used in larger drives too by the way, but they are connected with cables so they are easier to replace. But you still have the issue of not being able to replace only one specific failed device, you have to replace the whole shebang.
569ipm.jpg
576ipmopen.jpg
577goop.jpg


Older small drives that used discrete IGBTs and separate diode bridges are technically repairable, but with the advent of cheaper smaller IPMs, discrete IGBTs are harder and harder to find, translate: expensive. Then you have to deal with the relatively finite life of the capacitors, so even if you go to the time and expense to repair a power component on a small drive, it's probably getting long in the tooth if it still had IGBTs, so it isn't going to last much longer anyway.

Kind of like being hit with a $2,000 vet bill on a 16 year old dog...



I remember years ago when the AB1336's were popular on the bench. What we called IPM's were basically what you describe, basically larger IGBT's the size of king size KitKat bars. When these friggers,(plz excuse the adjective), went, they'd burn slam through the PCA. We worked on the smaller drives but they weren't any $200 fixes. For three years on the bench at the time, I would say 10% of them were IGBT failures. I never learned the root cause. It amazes me how much smaller the design devices are now compared to back then.:confused:
 

Electric-Light

Senior Member
Perhaps its feasible to have them "rebuilt" in China.

Whenever you take a car with automatic transmission problem, the normal procedure now a day is to swap with a rebuilt transmission. The old ones get sent out to rebuild shop, some in Mexico
 
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