Elevator Pit Lighting

[JoeStillman]

I recently learned that the ASME A17.1 elevator code requires 10 footcandles MINIMUM illumination in an elevator pit. I learned this the hard way - by having an elevator inspector with a light meter reject one of my designs (18W CFL jelly jar with guard.) The light level was "as low as 2.8 FC."

I'm posting because I've used this design for a long time (maybe 20 years) and never had a problem before. What are others using? How can you be sure you've designed this correctly without knowing how deep the pit is and what other junk is in there?

I also want ask if anyone has ever just run a circuit to the elevator pit and let the elevator people provide the light?

I would like to see a better division of labor between elevator installers and electricians. I think it's unreasonable to expect us (electricians and engineers) to stay up-to-date on the arcane elevator code. So little of it applies to us. I would like to exclude any work to which the elevator code might apply. This would make a clear cut division of labor.

How does this work in other parts of the country?

 

[nakulak]

in my area (MD) the inspector takes the light meter into the pit and checks the light. if he likes you, he puts it in a general area that is lit well. if he doesn't like you, he puts it in the best shadow he can find behind a pipe, and makes you keep adding jelly jars until there is enough light. It helps to paint the floor white. If a standard hdcp single elev. pit has 4 100w lights it might pass, most plans I see have one or two and they don't pass a real inspection.

 

[dicklaxt]

How much head room and side wall clearance do you have in the pit,if the car goes all the way down and is the side clearance all the way around?


dick

 

[cadpoint]

How much head room and side wall clearance do you have in the pit,if the car goes all the way down and is the side clearance all the way around?

Depending on the pit average about 3', use Google, images - "elevator pit". Side clearance are usually with-in inches, had one so close it turned on and off the pit lights as it road up and down.
The wall and pit is usually just inches front to back off the wall and the sides just large enough for the rail they ride on...
Of course all this just depends on the elevator and its requirements, but in most all cases there is a pit and there are springs to soften the landing... :grin:

 

[Electric-Light]

I've seen two lamp damp location four foot T8 mounted on the back wall horizontally and it was controlled manually by a regular switch near the door. (and elevator code is picky about where the light switch and the red stop switch is located (so let the elevator people pencil in where the switches have to be)

Something like this. http://www.commerciallightingcompany.com/images/VT.jpg

I suppose you can use low-profile T5 if that won't cut it clearance wise.

A long fluorescent should provide much more uniform lighting than a spot source and two 32W T8 lamps on a normal output ballast should provide about 6 to 7 times the output of your 16W CFL. Most ballasts support one lamp operation, so test with one bulb, but if that fails, install the second bulb.

 

[LarryFine]

... had one so close it turned on and off the pit lights as it road up and down.

As in it filled in the spaceand blocked the light, or as in the cab actually hit the switch?

 

[cadpoint]

As in it filled in the spaceand blocked the light, or as in the cab actually hit the switch?

A piece of steel angle was turning on and off the light...

 

[JoeStillman]

Your experience with the light switch confirms what I've been thinking. We have just taken for granted that the electrical contract has to include that light and switch (plus a GFI receptacle, sump pump and, if its a hydro, an oil minder). It's time to stop thinking like that. I say everything in the elvator shaft should belong to the elevator guy.

When an architect lays out an elevator shaft, he doesn't know who is going to build th elevator. He doesn't design all the steel and hydraulics or ropes and travelling cables. He doesn't know about brakes and springs. It's a mis-coordination waitng to happen every time. Why are we messing around in there at all?

 

[nakulak]

because every elevator company excludes it ?

 

[shepelec]

and it has nothing to do with the control or operation of the elevator. Next we will be giving them the recall smokes and letting them run the power to the disconnect as well.:roll:

Every elevator pit plan I have seen stated "to be coordinated with elevator contractor".

 

[jeremysterling]

I've seen two lamp damp location four foot T8 mounted on the back wall horizontally and it was controlled manually by a regular switch near the door.

This is how I've done it except it was one damp/wet location 2-lamp 4 foot T8 horizontally mounted.

 

[JoeStillman]

and it has nothing to do with the control or operation of the elevator. Next we will be giving them the recall smokes and letting them run the power to the disconnect as well.:roll:

Every elevator pit plan I have seen stated "to be coordinated with elevator contractor".

Let's not get carried away. Although, sometimes, the recall smokes are the only detectors in the building.

 

[jsb]

in a 2 car elevator i once put 2 8' flourescent strips in the pit. well actually it was "above" the pit on the shaft wall. i was talking to the elevator man and he was whining about light and i had some stips left over from temporary so i put them in. i installed them vertically, one for each car.

everything passed fine-well as far as the lighting. the grounding is a whole different story!

 

[Electric-Light]

in a 2 car elevator i once put 2 8' flourescent strips in the pit. well actually it was "above" the pit on the shaft wall. i was talking to the elevator man and he was whining about light and i had some stips left over from temporary so i put them in. i installed them vertically, one for each car.

everything passed fine-well as far as the lighting. the grounding is a whole different story!

I wouldn't use 8' lamps though. It's best to harmonize the lamp with the rest of the buildings and ganged 8' that takes two 4' lamps is much easier to maintain.

8' lamps are plain PITA.

jeremysterling,
I think you're just repeating what I said. I meant one two-lamp T8 4' fixture. I said that since ballast often supports one lamp operation, if one lamp provides enough output to satisfy the requirements, only one lamp should be installed to conserve energy.

 

[sgunsel]

In a situation where usage is only hours per year, energy conservation doesn't mean much. I'd prefer to have more light. I'm sure the elevator tech would too.

 

[Electric-Light]

In a situation where usage is only hours per year, energy conservation doesn't mean much. I'd prefer to have more light. I'm sure the elevator tech would too.

If it meets the code, then all is good for the purpose of the thread starter's question, but that's a valid point. It doesn't make a whole lot of difference.