When it says the EGC shall be permitted to terminate on grounding terminals in an outlet box used to enclose a snap switch does that mean the green screw can be used in a "bell box" with lets say forked stake- ons? Or does it need to be a individual terminal for each grounding conductor? Trying to come up with the best and easiest way to get the circuit from the panel(approx 100ft) away from the switching device and maintain a continuous ground per 680.23 2. Would running NM cable(12/3) and re- identifying one insulated conductor with green tape be an option? Thanks for any help you can give.
680.23F 2(b)
- Thread starter nizak
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cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
NM is not "stated" in your article, Good Luck ... Article 334.12(B)(4) says NO NM in wet locations...
and while not technically referenced per the ariticle you can only use what is stated in the higher part of the Codea, as stated.
and while not technically referenced per the ariticle you can only use what is stated in the higher part of the Codea, as stated.
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- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
You cannot run nm cable anywhere in the run for an underwater light as Jude was pointing out.
I would say if the JB with the snap switch is the last box between the panel and the pool light then yes the JB may be used to terminate the ground.
I should have said NM cable thru the basement only to the switch point and from there PVC and THHN to the J-box located under the diving board.That goes back to my ?? of whether or not there can be a break in the EGC at the switch enclosure and then carry on to the J-box with THHN.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Again you cannot have nm cable anywhere in the circuit. Read art. 680.23(F)(1). NM is not listed. It must be piped to the panel or one of the other methods stated.
some of the guys use carflex in the basement, to comply.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
That would comply for sure. MC is another good method where flexibility is needed.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I hope you can correct it without much ado. Good luck.
680.23 ( f ) ( 1 ) is a little gray area to me.
Wording reads - branch-circuit wiring on the supply side of enclosures and junction boxes ETC.
For years we have been aloud to run NM cable 12/3 using the insulated red marked green for pool lights and pumps using 12 NM
Now is an electrical panel considered an enclosure or is it an electrical panel , if an electrical panel is considered an enclosure why wasn't it worded that way like this - branch-circuit wiring on the supply side of ELECTRICAL PANELS and junction boxes ETC
The way I read this is NM ( 12/3 red conductor marked as green for a pool light) is OK from the electrical panel to the first junction or switch box location outside then from there the other approved wiring methods apply - conduit - liquid tight ETC
Like I said above , the wording is a gray area to me.
Now I am ready to get beat up.
WinZip
Wording reads - branch-circuit wiring on the supply side of enclosures and junction boxes ETC.
For years we have been aloud to run NM cable 12/3 using the insulated red marked green for pool lights and pumps using 12 NM
Now is an electrical panel considered an enclosure or is it an electrical panel , if an electrical panel is considered an enclosure why wasn't it worded that way like this - branch-circuit wiring on the supply side of ELECTRICAL PANELS and junction boxes ETC
The way I read this is NM ( 12/3 red conductor marked as green for a pool light) is OK from the electrical panel to the first junction or switch box location outside then from there the other approved wiring methods apply - conduit - liquid tight ETC
Like I said above , the wording is a gray area to me.
Now I am ready to get beat up.
WinZip
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
How do you come up with this? The entire branch circuit from the panel to the light must comply with 680.23(F)(1). NM cable can not be used.
For one - we have been aloud to run NM cable to the first switch location for the past 20 years , the use of 12/3 from the electrical panel with red conductor marked as green has been acceptable to a switch location for a pool light an GFCI receptacle and from the switched location to the pool light junction box in conduit with single conductors , and the pump circuit in 12/2 to the switched location and liquid-tight from there to motors an heaters ETC.
If a sub panel is Installed or control center then it is in conduit the entire way to the electrical panel with 4 insulated conductors and also conduit and liquid-tight to the equipment locations and pool light junction boxes.
Again is an enclosure considered an electrical panel.
If a sub panel is Installed or control center then it is in conduit the entire way to the electrical panel with 4 insulated conductors and also conduit and liquid-tight to the equipment locations and pool light junction boxes.
Again is an enclosure considered an electrical panel.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Well I will say the paragraph is worded poorly.
I see that as the entire branch circuit. They are talking about the wiring that supplies the enclosures and JB that connect to the lights. The supply side is the entire branch circuit. I think the distinction is made because the wiring to the load side of the JB is different. Read art. 680.23(B)(2)
I don't see how you can think NM is allowed. IMO, no way.
I see that as the entire branch circuit. They are talking about the wiring that supplies the enclosures and JB that connect to the lights. The supply side is the entire branch circuit. I think the distinction is made because the wiring to the load side of the JB is different. Read art. 680.23(B)(2)
It goes on to explain the conduits.... The bold area clearly states the enclosures conforming to req. of 680.24-- basically the pool boxes.
I don't see how you can think NM is allowed. IMO, no way.
Dennis ,
Are you saying that 12/3 NM with insulated ground conductor would not be aloud from an electrical panel to an outdoor switched location , then conduit from switched location to pool light junction box ( 3 single conductors ) and conduit from same pool light junction box to niche ( with #8 Insulated ground and Light cord ) , if so then for the last 20 years in 6 different cities the Inspectors have have approved this method and passed final Inspections.
I think the verbiage needs to be re-written.
Are you saying that 12/3 NM with insulated ground conductor would not be aloud from an electrical panel to an outdoor switched location , then conduit from switched location to pool light junction box ( 3 single conductors ) and conduit from same pool light junction box to niche ( with #8 Insulated ground and Light cord ) , if so then for the last 20 years in 6 different cities the Inspectors have have approved this method and passed final Inspections.
I think the verbiage needs to be re-written.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I am saying exactly that. NM is not one of the wiring methods allowed. I think that part is pretty clear.
I would like to see this article allow a switch leg in NM if the conduit was continuous from the panel to a JB and then to the light with a switch loop up to an interior switch in NM as long as the egc was unbroken. Hence it could be stripped in the jb with a small split bolt to the nm cable.
As it is written I am not sure that would be allowed but why not????
I will put a call into a head Inspector that knows this code book in an out and find out for sure on this article , maybe its aloud by our state wide code in which I don't have that book at the moment.
I hope you don't think I meant running NM in any way to the pool light junction box which is clearly wrong but for years now we have been aloud to run 12/3 with the red conductor taped green from the electrical panel to the outside switched location then conduit from there to pool light junction box with 3 single conductors NOT NM and 12/2 to the pump switching location.
Sub panels and control panels would be in conduit the entire way with 4 insulated conductors.
I hope you don't think I meant running NM in any way to the pool light junction box which is clearly wrong but for years now we have been aloud to run 12/3 with the red conductor taped green from the electrical panel to the outside switched location then conduit from there to pool light junction box with 3 single conductors NOT NM and 12/2 to the pump switching location.
Sub panels and control panels would be in conduit the entire way with 4 insulated conductors.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I would like to know what he thinks but....... You know. 
What state are you in?
What state are you in?curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
All of the branch circuit wiring between the panel and the deck box or transformer is on the supply side.
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