I have an outdoor hot tub sitting on an existing concrete patio, bought from costco made out of plastic, that is located 3' from the side of the house. There is a plastic downspout from the metal rain gutter located within 5'. The metal rain gutter is approx. 8' AFF. There is no cover above the hot tub. Is the metal gutter considered a fixed metal part & required to be bonded to the grounding system Per 680.26(B)(7)? Since it is sitting on an existing concrete patio and made out of plastic the equipotential bonding is not required? :-?
Outdoor Hot Tub 680.26(B)(7) bond metal rain gutters?
- Thread starter gitter2go
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Welcome to the forum.
Yes, The metal gutter is within 12' vertically and 5' horizontally of the hot tub water.
Actually the perimeter surface is required to be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B)(2). There is no exception for an exsiting concrete patio.
Chris
Yes, The metal gutter is within 12' vertically and 5' horizontally of the hot tub water.
Actually the perimeter surface is required to be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B)(2). There is no exception for an exsiting concrete patio.
Chris
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I disagree with Chris on this. The rain gutter is not associated with the tub and it is my opinion that art. 680.26(B)(7) is misinterpreted. That article heading is Metal wiring methods and equipment. The gutter is neither of these and thus does not need bonding.
I have argued this for years and am a bit of a lone wolf on it. Mike Holt had a graphic years ago shoing that metal window etc within 5' needed to be boned. His new graphic does nopt show the windows being bonded.
I have argued this for years and am a bit of a lone wolf on it. Mike Holt had a graphic years ago shoing that metal window etc within 5' needed to be boned. His new graphic does nopt show the windows being bonded.
Volta
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
The list of (A)(7) includes metal piping.
That is not an electrical term. Likely means water, gas, or air system(s).
Thus, fixed metal parts are likely to mean other than those addressed in (6) or earlier in (A)(7).
I would think that bonding that water runoff systems fall under the stated intent of (A), are covered by (A)(7), and must be bonded.
That is not an electrical term. Likely means water, gas, or air system(s).
Thus, fixed metal parts are likely to mean other than those addressed in (6) or earlier in (A)(7).
I would think that bonding that water runoff systems fall under the stated intent of (A), are covered by (A)(7), and must be bonded.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
While it is an unlikely problem it still must be bonded, are no exceptions to allow it and yes is possable problem at x mass time. As 680 states EVERY THING within 5 feet must be bonded. That includes window frames , doors and anything else within the 5 feet horizontal up to 12 feet. This is about safety
And for what it is worth i think that number needs increased
And for what it is worth i think that number needs increased
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Jim did you read my post. Where is your justification for this. I gave you mine but you are saying things without reference.
I also stated that MH changed his opinion on bonding of window frames and I believe it was for the reasons I stated.
Interesting is the graphic shows a fence being bonded but not the gutter. I think the fence makes sence but I still don't see the words.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
Actually this post brought up a violation i have on my own tub as i have a gutter i been overlookig. Soon to be fixed by vinly but still there for now.
Keep in mind anything in a handbook means nothing. Our opinions mean just as much
The hardest thing i ever had to deal with is 680 as we can easily miss things.
M. D.
Senior Member
You are not quite alone Dennis ,. I agree with you . Bond it if you want to but I don't see the words that require it either... This was a good discussion on the subject if the O.P. or anyone else is interested http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=99765&highlight=graphic+change
elohr46
Senior Member
- Location
- square one
2008 NEC, article 680.26(B)(7). Metal Wiring Methods and Equipment.
I don't see how this includes metal rain gutters, I wouldn't bond it. You do need a bonding grid around the spa/hot tub as per 680.26(B)(2). Pool water also needs bonding as well. 680.26(C)
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
The gutter in the picture is not within 5' of the pool. The OP stated his downspout was within 5' of the pool therefore it must be bonded. The bonding issue is not about associated pool wiring it is about voltage gradients around the pool and ALL metal within 5' being at the same potential. I do not understand why people have such a hard time with this.
- Location
- Massachusetts
What code section backs that opinion up?
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
You would not get it passed in most parts of Florida.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I can understand a fence but not a gutter.
Cavie it may be what is expected in Fa. and it may be the intent of the code but it is not what the articles states. I will ask my ever so unpopular question-- "Do you make the EC bond every nail in the siding that is within 5' . I think there is more probability of a nailing energized then a gutter. I have seen siding nails that had hit wires but never saw an energized gutter.
Cavie it may be what is expected in Fa. and it may be the intent of the code but it is not what the articles states. I will ask my ever so unpopular question-- "Do you make the EC bond every nail in the siding that is within 5' . I think there is more probability of a nailing energized then a gutter. I have seen siding nails that had hit wires but never saw an energized gutter.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I won't even guess about the intent but I think we have to admit the wording does not support an inspector requiring a gutter or down spout to be bonded regardless if we think it is a good idea or what is commonly required in any area.
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
In my 40+ years experiance I have personally worked on gutters with 120v on them. Long nails in the attic, long screws in the straps to the siding in frame houses, DA's covering exposed RX with the gutter then driving the nails thru it.
680.26 Equipotential bonding. Nails 680.26 (B) (5) Metal fittings. If you install a roll up storm sutter in Florida that is within 5' of the pool, it gets bonded. this applies to existing also. Metal parts. 680.26 (B) (7) Metal wiring and Equipment.....all fixed metal parts shall be bonded. Equipment meaning diving boards, ladders, platforms and anything made of metal. It is not limited to The Pool equipment.
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
If you have the time a $$$ come on down an take on the State of Florida. Some battles are better of left alone.
elohr46
Senior Member
- Location
- square one
Florida, or any other state for that matter, is permitted to have their own set of rules. I don't see any requirement in art. 680 for the bonding of metal rain gutters.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Cavie what kind of reply is that?
I am simply asking you to back your opinion with some NEC code wording. Or a FL amendment requiring what you say is enforced.
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
I have to agree but that is what they hang there hats on.
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