Electrial repair

[wa5yom]

I have a wire under the house that was shorting against a nail...(old house built in 1940). The wireing is old and does not meet the current codes....

Thear are about three groups of wires all going to the oroginal Panelboard...

I wanted the Contractor to cut the subjest wire, add a j-box, run the wire throught the j-box and wire nut the new connection.

He said, he cannot touch the wires, since they do not meet code without rewiring everything associated with the entire panelboard.

Earlier, I had taped the wire to keep it from shorting.

I asked him if he had inspected the repai to see if it was still safe. He said he could not touch it...


I have a hard tiome believing this..

Any comments....

 

[augie47]

Often such "restrictions" are part of rules set forth by local jurisdiction with some restrictions by the individual's insurance underwriter.
In general, if the wiring was installed according to the applicable Code at the time of installation, necessary repairs can be made.
You might want to run your question by your AHJ.

 

[iwire]

There is no actual code rule to back the electricians statement up.

That said, if he is the owner of the business he is entirely entitled to pass on a job to avoid possible future liability.

If he does not feel comfortable with the condition of the wiring he can certainly decide not to touch it.

You can call other ECs or decide that maybe there is a good reason that the EC thinks your wiring is so bad he does not want to touch it.

 

[Hendrix]

There is no actually code rule to back the electricians statement up.

That said, if he is the owner of the business he is entirely entitled to pass on a job to avoid possible future liability.

If he does not feel comfortable with the condition of the wiring he can certainly decide not to touch it.

You can call other ECs or decide that maybe there is a good reason that the EC thinks your wiring is so bad he does not want to touch it.

I have declined a number of times for K&T feeding a light fixture.

 

[wireguy8169]

Up to the EC

Up to the EC

If an EC doesn't like the look of a job he can turn it down. But, if I turned down every job or wouldnt touch jobs because of the condition I would have been fired or out of work, cause I never like the look of most Knob and Tube, and would have much rather changed a panel to make the residence save but that is not always my call. So to answer you question, unless the AHJ says something or the Local Codes specifically say something against it he just may not have wanted the head ach...

 

[wa5yom]

I am familiar with Industrial codes...but not residential....

The old Knob-tube installation is all gone....this is basically the old style of romex.....no ground wire.......cotton type coating sleve over the wires.....

I can appreciate that they may need to check the other wires at the termination point...since it is possible that something could come loose while they make the repair.....but that should be the extent of the job...

However.....to not be willing to validate that the wire is considered safe......leaves the homeowner is a very bad situation...

If he felt is was sooo bad.....then it was time an explanation....

I would rather be told that they don't want the job, with an explanayion, rather than simply state that "If they touch it" they have to replace everything....

I will check the local codes...but I doubt that they require that solution...

 

[macmikeman]

Lots of guys get all their trade info either sitting around the lunch table on the jobsite or at the supply house counter. That is a common misinformation tidbit that gets passed around trade lackeys. Don't hold it against him. A call to the local building dept. should provide you the correct local take on the subject.

 

[iaov]

I,ve turned down work like this also. In our law suit happy society you have to be carefull. Especially if you hold a Masters license. The general rule is that if you touch it, you own it. I always explain to people why I won't do the simple repair though and it has lead to some further work. Most folks do not want to live with potentialy dangerous wiring. The problem with a lot of the old K&T stuff is brittle insulation. Those wires may very well work just fine for another hundred years provided they are not disturbed, but I've watched the insulation crack right off when they are moved. Claiming that the whole house and panel would have to be rewired is a little far fetched though.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I have a wire under the house that was shorting against a nail...(old house built in 1940). The wireing is old and does not meet the current codes....

Thear are about three groups of wires all going to the oroginal Panelboard...

I wanted the Contractor to cut the subjest wire, add a j-box, run the wire throught the j-box and wire nut the new connection.

He said, he cannot touch the wires, since they do not meet code without rewiring everything associated with the entire panelboard.

Earlier, I had taped the wire to keep it from shorting.

I asked him if he had inspected the repai to see if it was still safe. He said he could not touch it...


I have a hard tiome believing this..

Any comments....

So why were you doing anything to this system ? You taped it , why ? If your licensed to tape it then why dont you finish the job ? Your trying to put his name on the line not yours. Are you willing to write up a letter authorizing this repai and take full liability ? EC works for himself and can and should refuse outside advice. He does what he feels is safe enough for him to sign off. I have refused to certify many older houses both under my license and any company i work for. I alone make the call.

 

[ceb58]

I have a hard tiome believing this..

Any comments....

So do I......

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

So do I......

believe what ? An EC saying i wont touch it ? Maybe he is not interested in risking his insurance. If tape is the suggested fix i will walk away. Nope , sorry RUN

 

[macmikeman]

I've walked away from just waiting to burn existing electrical situations. I don't like doing it, but some homeowner's just insist on adding bandaids onto bandaids, not gut and rewire. They refuse to be realistic about paying for me to do the proper job. Also some homeowners who have a future fire have houses that are filled to the ceiling with furniture and or clutter that you could never get a rewire done in there. There is not enough time in life for me to waste mine on this type of job.

 

[wptski]

believe what ? An EC saying i wont touch it ? Maybe he is not interested in risking his insurance. If tape is the suggested fix i will walk away. Nope , sorry RUN

In the manufacturing industry, I've seen many motors disconnected/connected by electricians. All the wires had terminal lugs, used screws/nuts and then covered with tape to keep from shorting out in the junction box. You can tape a terminal connection to keep from shorting but you can't tape a bare/nicked wire from shorting out because it's unsafe?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

In the manufacturing industry, I've seen many motors disconnected/connected by electricians. All the wires had terminal lugs, used screws/nuts and then covered with tape to keep from shorting out in the junction box. You can tape a terminal connection to keep from shorting but you can't tape a bare/nicked wire from shorting out because it's unsafe?

You can but many here won't. Tape is seldom equal to the insulation. If its old wire and needs taped because insulation is brittle just what condition do you think the rest of it is in ?
I try to be nec compliant and produce quality safe installs. When i see fire traps customer has choice, either let me fix as needed or get some hack to do it. I will not put my name on it and sure do not want to see a kid die in a fire because i ignored the right way to fix.

 

[wptski]

You can but many here won't. Tape is seldom equal to the insulation. If its old wire and needs taped because insulation is brittle just what condition do you think the rest of it is in ?
I try to be nec compliant and produce quality safe installs. When i see fire traps customer has choice, either let me fix as needed or get some hack to do it. I will not put my name on it and sure do not want to see a kid die in a fire because i ignored the right way to fix.

What about motor leads?

 

[iwire]

What about motor leads?

Well if the leads going into the motor and from the starter where junk would taping up the splices help?

With old wiring I would not really be worried about the section of junk wire I tapped up, I would be worried about the disturbed insulation where I just flexed it around to tape it up.

 

[mxslick]

What about motor leads?

In addition to what Bob just said, I'm gonna add there is a difference between motor terminations which should be enclosed in the motor's housing, box or PH and taping a wire in free air. :roll:

If the wiring is in bad shape putting tape on it isn't gonna solve the real problem and you will end up paying for it down the road..one way or another.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

doing patch work will never pay off, they will long forget that you said it was in bad shape. What they will remember is that they paid you and now paying again. Your not saveing them money doing patch work. Long run your name is at stake. After your in this long enough you will understand.

 

[wptski]

In addition to what Bob just said, I'm gonna add there is a difference between motor terminations which should be enclosed in the motor's housing, box or PH and taping a wire in free air. :roll:

If the wiring is in bad shape putting tape on it isn't gonna solve the real problem and you will end up paying for it down the road..one way or another.

My point is that tape is normally used as insulation at times.

 

[Dan coulstring]

My point is that tape is normally used as insulation at times.

In the place I work we are getting away from taping bolted motor lead connections and using these.