Normal and Emergency outlets in O.R.?

[anbm]

Is there a specific NEC rule requires to have both normal and emergency outlets inside O.R.? Most of new design I have seen is all outlets inside O.R. are fed from an emergency power - isolation panel. Maybe there is only one convenient GFCI outlet on normal & non-isolated power panel.

NEC 517 requires to have both normal and emergency outlets at patient bed headwall, but I think this rule won't applies to O.R. since we only have surgery table located in middle of the room. Am I correct? Thanks!

 

[brother]

Is there a specific NEC rule requires to have both normal and emergency outlets inside O.R.? Most of new design I have seen is all outlets inside O.R. are fed from an emergency power - isolation panel. Maybe there is only one convenient GFCI outlet on normal & non-isolated power panel.

NEC 517 requires to have both normal and emergency outlets at patient bed headwall, but I think this rule won't applies to O.R. since we only have surgery table located in middle of the room. Am I correct? Thanks!

Patient Bed Location is defined as 'The location of a patient sleeping bed or the bed or procedure table of a critical care area'.

The whole area of O.R.s are considered a 'location' of a procedure tables not just the 'middle of the room' IMO (Ive seen where they had to grab power from the outer walls when the breakers trip, not a good feeling for nurses and doctors). 2008 NEC 517.18, 19 SAYS you must have at LEAST 2 branch circuits , 1 from emergency, and 1 from normal, always a 2. This is to reduce risk especially in an O.R.!!

Try to imagine your wife or daughter or close friend in those o.r.s for sugery, wouldn't you want them to have as much help as possible?? I would say its required , unless you meet the exception of where the emergency is being served from 2 seperate transfer switches, which most hospitals dont have for the same location in an O.R. Check out NFPA 99 as well.

 

[brother]

Also, why are they using ungrounded (isolated) and grounded circuits in an O.R., either its a wet procedure location or its not, and the loss of power can be tolerated or cannot be tolerated, it shouldn't be both!! NEC 517.20

 

[anbm]

Didn't know where you found the definition of patient bed location in the code, but here is NEC requirement for outlets at patient bed location for critical care area, O.R. will be considered as critical area:


517.19(B)
(B) Patient Bed Location Receptacles. (1) Minimum Number and Supply. Each patient bed location shall be provided with a minimum of six receptacles,
at least one of which shall be connected to either of the following:
(1) The normal system branch circuit required in 517.19(A)
(2) An emergency system branch circuit supplied by a different
transfer switch than the other receptacles at the same location

517.20 Wet Procedure Locations

(A) Receptacles and Fixed Equipment. All receptacles and fixed equipment within the area of the wet procedure shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel if interruption of power under fault conditions can be tolerated, or be served by an isolated power system if such interruption cannot be tolerated.

So, in O.R. looks like one GFCI outlet on normal power and all remain outlets can be fed from isolated emergency power panel and this will meet code, anyone has other opinions?

 

[brother]

Didn't know where you found the definition of patient bed location in the code,

Its under defintions in NEC 517.2

517.19(B)
(B) Patient Bed Location Receptacles. (1) Minimum Number and Supply. Each patient bed location shall be provided with a minimum of six receptacles,
at least one of which shall be connected to either of the following:
(1) The normal system branch circuit required in 517.19(A)
(2) An emergency system branch circuit supplied by a different
transfer switch than the other receptacles at the same location

517.20 Wet Procedure Locations

(A) Receptacles and Fixed Equipment. All receptacles and fixed equipment within the area of the wet procedure shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel if interruption of power under fault conditions can be tolerated, or be served by an isolated power system if such interruption cannot be tolerated.

So, in O.R. looks like one GFCI outlet on normal power and all remain outlets can be fed from isolated emergency power panel and this will meet code, anyone has other opinions?

Im well aware of 517.19, 20 says, I quoted it (517.19) in my previous post. Yes technically if you have one on normal and the rest on emergency then you meet that part of the code. But I was answering your question

Is there a specific NEC rule requires to have both normal and emergency outlets inside O.R.? ?

I answered your question with code. I've done alot of work in hospitals, and I am still curious as to why they have both grounded and ungrounded receptacles in the same O.R.?? They do make 'normal' power iso panels as well, and I seen where they have O.R.'s with all the receptacles on iso-power both normal and emergency because of the 'classification' as a wet procedure location.

 

[steve66]

I agree with brother. You absoutely need a second source of power in OR's. By that, I mean some receptacles that aren't on the same transfer switch with the main receptacles. This could be normal power, or from a separate transfer switch.

I've seen a failure on the load side of a transfer switch serving an OR when they didn't have this. Not pretty.

As far as having the normal receptacles on an isolation panel, I tend to agree with brother on this one too. Either all the receptacles in the OR should be on isolated power, or the isolated power shouldn't be needed at all. (Exception would be specialized receptacles for xray, etc.)

I believe you should also have some lighting on another source for the same reason. (Not sure if thats code or not).

 

[roger]

I believe you should also have some lighting on another source for the same reason. (Not sure if thats code or not).

Yes it is, at the bare minimum a battery powered fixture is required in an OR.

Roger

 

[anbm]

Its under defintions in NEC 517.2




Im well aware of 517.19, 20 says, I quoted it (517.19) in my previous post. Yes technically if you have one on normal and the rest on emergency then you meet that part of the code. But I was answering your question
I answered your question with code. I've done alot of work in hospitals, and I am still curious as to why they have both grounded and ungrounded receptacles in the same O.R.?? They do make 'normal' power iso panels as well, and I seen where they have O.R.'s with all the receptacles on iso-power both normal and emergency because of the 'classification' as a wet procedure location.

On my opinion, the reason they want non-isolated power inside O.R. so they will allow the Doctor to do his job with defined fault (5mA or less) on power sytem without tripping breaker in isolation panel.

They don't want to have normal isolated panel because they want to save the cost for extra isolation panel when all circuits can be fed from one panel. However, in order to meet code, they just have one GFCI outlet on normal power.

 

[anbm]

In previous message, I meant they want isolated power in O.R.

 

[roger]

On my opinion, the reason they want non-isolated power inside O.R. so they will allow the Doctor to do his job with defined fault (5mA or less) on power sytem without tripping breaker in isolation panel.

A fault or leakage current of more than 5ma will not trip a breaker in an isolated power system, it will only set the LIM into alarm which could be silenced whereas, the GFCI seeing a 5ma problem will trip.

They don't want to have normal isolated panel because they want to save the cost for extra isolation panel when all circuits can be fed from one panel. However, in order to meet code, they just have one GFCI outlet on normal power.

If isolated power systems are not required in your area why not feed both Critical and Normal branch circuits with grounded systems and GFCI all the devices?

Roger

 

[anbm]

If isolated power systems are not required in your area why not feed both Critical and Normal branch circuits with grounded systems and GFCI all the devices?

Roger

I did not say this, to clarify: one emergency isolated power panel shall be used in OR to serves all emergency outlets (non GFCI type). Only one GFCI outlet is needed and fed out of normal panel/grounded system.

 

[roger]

I did not say this, to clarify: one emergency isolated power panel shall be used in OR to serves all emergency outlets (non GFCI type). Only one GFCI outlet is needed and fed out of normal panel/grounded system.

You say you are using one outlet out of a grounded system, this would indicate that isolated systems are not required. Whether it be one device or all, grounded circuits are either allowed or not, which should mean isolation systems are not.

In any case, mixing the two is a bad idea.


Roger

 

[anbm]

You say you are using one outlet out of a grounded system, this would indicate that isolated systems are not required. Whether it be one device or all, grounded circuits are either allowed or not, which should mean isolation systems are not.

In any case, mixing the two is a bad idea.


Roger

The GFCI outlet is used to meet code requirement of one normal and emergency power circuits to patient bed area. Health department is specific require to label the GFCI outlet on normal power "shall be used only in case of loss of critical power."

 

[ASG]

The GFCI outlet is used to meet code requirement of one normal and emergency power circuits to patient bed area. Health department is specific require to label the GFCI outlet on normal power "shall be used only in case of loss of critical power."

Which health department?

 

[brother]

The GFCI outlet is used to meet code requirement of one normal and emergency power circuits to patient bed area. Health department is specific require to label the GFCI outlet on normal power "shall be used only in case of loss of critical power."

I agree with others, mixing the 2 (grounded and ungrounded) is a very bad idea!! And I dont want to sound harsh to your 'governing authorities' but to say that a 'gfci' normal power is to be used only in case of loss of critical power, is a very foolish thinking!!

If the power got lost on that critical, that would mean they need the other power badly and to have a gfci to can trip easily is not good. I can see a doc or nurse constantly trying to reset the gfci to get it to work and it wont reset.

I will guess that they will NOT be 'testing' the gfci 'monthly' like most instructions say with them.