X10

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hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
I have seen a lot of posts about X10 switches and controllers on this forum, so today while I was at Fry's I finaly seen some. The boss's wife is wanting a panic button to turn on the exterior lighting, this looks to be the easiest way to accomplish this. The bonus part is she is wanting some mood lighting behind the Jacuzzi area, which I already have circuits out (8 to be exact)there for Christmas lights, but are presently controlled thru a contactor and time clock. The X10 looks to be a good canidate for this as it also has dimming functions too. The box says 100' range, but the main controller will be on the second floor, will the transmitter work between floors? Most of the X10 switches will be on the first floor, with a possible switch on third if I add an exterior light at the eaves up there.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
It should work if the house is standard type of construction. Concrete 2nd floor, masonry walls, etc can cause problems.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Standard construction, exterior walls are stucco, I am going to try a wireless hand held out at the Jacuzzi/pool area to control the exterior lighting in that area.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
HB, there are two basic parts of such a system: the wired portion, which includes plug-in and hard-wired transmitters and receivers; and wireless controllers, which use RF links to communicate with the wired portion.

Start with the loads. How many separate loads, what types, what are the load watts/amps, which need dimming or speed control, and how are they now controlled?

Then, how do you want to control them, such as in-wall switch replacement tranceivers and control pads, hand-held wireless control pads, key fobs, etc.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Just doing exterior lighting, most of the exsisting controls are run of the mill programable replacement switch timers, replacing those with the X10 switch modules. Just wanted to know how well the transmitters work, manufactures tend to stretch the truth about how well their products work.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I've had good success with them, especially the X10-Pro version of their stuff.

It sounds like you know what you're looking for. Making a little sketch helps.
 

TwinCitySparky

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
I have seen a lot of posts about X10 switches and controllers on this forum, so today while I was at Fry's I finaly seen some. The boss's wife is wanting a panic button to turn on the exterior lighting, this looks to be the easiest way to accomplish this. The bonus part is she is wanting some mood lighting behind the Jacuzzi area, which I already have circuits out (8 to be exact)there for Christmas lights, but are presently controlled thru a contactor and time clock. The X10 looks to be a good canidate for this as it also has dimming functions too. The box says 100' range, but the main controller will be on the second floor, will the transmitter work between floors? Most of the X10 switches will be on the first floor, with a possible switch on third if I add an exterior light at the eaves up there.


I would never depend on X-10 for any type of emergency function. You have not read enough posts regarding the stability of that product. :cool:
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Started the install today, Installed four of the switches and the timer/controller. Worked good for about 15 minutes, then the timer/controller display started flickering, wiggled the power connector, and it would go out totally. It appears they have an issue with the RJ jack they use on the back of the unit. Did not have time to re-crimp power cord, but I hope the rest of the system is of better quality.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Fixed the controller, re-crimped the end on the power cord. Still not very impressed with the system, I have two switches that work perfect from the remote, and two that will not work at all with the remote, double and tripple checked the addresses, changed to different device numbers to no avail. The work fine using the paddle. They are also closer to the controller than the two that are working. I'm just wondering if they need to be on the same power leg as the controller? If the defective product ratio is that bad......... GE offers a smiliar product, but at a ridiculous price. (about four times the cost of the X-10)
 

Chamuit

Grumpy Old Man
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
I have had a couple of jobs where we have gotten rid of X10. The increase of electronic devices in the average home has made device communications erratic and unreliable. One rep said that the neutrals in the average home have become "dirty" and that is what affects the performance.

Have worked on two homes in the last three weeks where they are putting in Crestron and Control4 devices and controls. I cannot tell you if they work better or not though.
 

TwinCitySparky

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Here is a "bullet proof" manufacturer of line carrier products.

http://www.digitalavnew.com/UPB-FAQ.htm

An irrigation specialist told me about this company. They use this product to control valves and pumps on large projects where someone forgot to run control wires. I have used this product before. It is expensive (at least 4 times X-10) and takes some time to learn how to program and set-up but it actually does the job every time. Check out the following from their website.

Q: What are the technical differences between UPB and X10?

A: Although UPB and X10 each use standard powerlines to communicate, the underlying technologies of each are significantly different. First, X10 uses a fixed carrier frequency to communicate data. Carrier frequencies traveling on household power wiring are subject to attenuation and noise interference, which can cause intermittent reliability issues. UPB utilizes a patented communications method called Pulse Position Modulation (PPM) that is based on timed pulses rather than a carrier frequency. Using pulses for signaling means (a) less attenuation on the powerline and (b) less susceptibility to RF interference. In addition, there is a difference in voltage strength: an X10 signal is 4 volts at its strongest level; while UPB is 40 volts, or 10 times stronger. The end result is faster and more reliable communication, especially when transmitting over longer distances. Another difference between the two technologies is that the transmission packet for UPB allows more data to be communicated over a much wider address space. This enables a higher level of control and far less potential of interference between adjacent homes. Lastly, UPB is a two-way communication protocol, whereas X10 is primarily unidirectional. Two-way communication allows the system to verify that a given message was successfully received.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Here is a "bullet proof" manufacturer of line carrier products.

http://www.digitalavnew.com/UPB-FAQ.htm

An irrigation specialist told me about this company. They use this product to control valves and pumps on large projects where someone forgot to run control wires. I have used this product before. It is expensive (at least 4 times X-10) and takes some time to learn how to program and set-up but it actually does the job every time. Check out the following from their website.

Q: What are the technical differences between UPB and X10?

A: Although UPB and X10 each use standard powerlines to communicate, the underlying technologies of each are significantly different. First, X10 uses a fixed carrier frequency to communicate data. Carrier frequencies traveling on household power wiring are subject to attenuation and noise interference, which can cause intermittent reliability issues. UPB utilizes a patented communications method called Pulse Position Modulation (PPM) that is based on timed pulses rather than a carrier frequency. Using pulses for signaling means (a) less attenuation on the powerline and (b) less susceptibility to RF interference. In addition, there is a difference in voltage strength: an X10 signal is 4 volts at its strongest level; while UPB is 40 volts, or 10 times stronger. The end result is faster and more reliable communication, especially when transmitting over longer distances. Another difference between the two technologies is that the transmission packet for UPB allows more data to be communicated over a much wider address space. This enables a higher level of control and far less potential of interference between adjacent homes. Lastly, UPB is a two-way communication protocol, whereas X10 is primarily unidirectional. Two-way communication allows the system to verify that a given message was successfully received.

This must be the same technology that GE was using, I will have to look that up. The GE's were about $80 a switch.
 

TwinCitySparky

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
From the site:

UPB utilizes a patented communications method called Pulse Position Modulation (PPM) that is based on timed pulses rather than a carrier frequency.
 
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