can lights

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jetlag

Senior Member
Will you get flagged on new work for leaving the wires in place to install remodeling type can lights instead of mounting the new work can lights. The reason I ask is I will be installing my own dry wall and it is much easier to cut the opening for remodeling lights after the ceiling is up . I wouldnt do that on full size cans but it will be the small 5" with eye ball trim over the bar top. They are light and wont cause the ceiling to sag.
 

aftershock

Senior Member
Location
Memphis, TN
You can get a remodel closer to a joist especially if said joist will throw your centerline off when placing multiple cans in a row.
I have had to do this before. I also do this for Island and peninsula lights.
I just make sure I am there to meet the inspector to explain the wire and all is good.
 

jetlag

Senior Member
Is there a reason you dont want to use the new construction cans? I think they would be easier if the drywall is down, no?

~Matt

Yes I gave the reason I will be installing my own dry wall and it is not something I am good at and it is a real pain to cut holes in right place and get sheet up and have to try to shift several cans around at once to allow for error. It is easy to pop a hole in the right spot in ceiling if wires are already installed. the small 5 " cans just rest on dry wall .
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I would suggest asking the flagger first.

I also prefer new-work cans. I do drywalling, too, and I always get the round and rectangular holes just right. I use a hole-saw for round holes. They just fit too well to do it by hand (quicker, too).

I measure from the butting edge to comfortably just before and just past the opening (box, can bracket flange, etc.) in both directions, and transfer those four numbers to the drywall.

You don't need an exact measurement; within 1/8" is more than enough for square-cornered holes, and just cut inside the lines. I'll slightly bevel the hole larger on the stud side for a closer fit on the outside.

You can be even sloppier for round holes, as long as you allow the same amount of clearance on both sides of the can as you measure in each direction. Use easy-to-see-and-remember fractions.

I draw a square or rectangle using those numbers, and draw an X from opposing corners. Regardless of the "precision" of my drawing, the X marks the center of the circle for my hole-saw arbor.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I think you are making a big mistake uing retro cans when you don't have to. It's not hard to cut the sheetrock -- just measure it a few times.
 

jetlag

Senior Member
I think you are making a big mistake uing retro cans when you don't have to. It's not hard to cut the sheetrock -- just measure it a few times.

I dont know why every one is so down on the remodeling cans , we all use them all the time on old work . I dont know of any problem , keep in mind these 5" with small eyeball is much lighter than a standard 6" , the j box is attached to the can not out on an arm with flex.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I dont know why every one is so down on the remodeling cans , we all use them all the time on old work . I dont know of any problem , keep in mind these 5" with small eyeball is much lighter than a standard 6" , the j box is attached to the can not out on an arm with flex.


Anyway, I don't think it is a code violation to install the cans later. There used to be a section in the code that required boxes etc. to be fastened to the structure with new construction-- I have not seen that any where recently.

I know exactly what a retro can is. I don't like them because over time they tend to fall out a bit. Some trims won't sit flush with them either.

I see retros as they are designed for retro work not new construction. Some eyeball trims work on pressure fir and don't do well with retros. I avoid them but that's my thing. If I have an old house with an attic I will install regular cans not retros.
 

jetlag

Senior Member
Anyway, I don't think it is a code violation to install the cans later. There used to be a section in the code that required boxes etc. to be fastened to the structure with new construction-- I have not seen that any where recently.

I know exactly what a retro can is. I don't like them because over time they tend to fall out a bit. Some trims won't sit flush with them either.

I see retros as they are designed for retro work not new construction. Some eyeball trims work on pressure fir and don't do well with retros. I avoid them but that's my thing. If I have an old house with an attic I will install regular cans not retros.

IF u notice the 5" cans are not usually in the section with the main 6 " section, and for new work you have to buy the bracket seperate. It is a thin bracket and lays down flat not on edge like the regular 6 " .I dont believe that bracket would hold as much as just set the flange on down on the dry wall. That was reason I was just going to use remodeling without the bracket. I dont want the big cans over the kitchen c top , i want the small par20 or pr20 bulbs
 
The reason we don't like them is call backs when the customer (and sometimes the electrician) pulls down the sheetrock trying to remove lamps. Also, if you don't cut the hole just right, they won't stay up or sag on one side and look like doo-doo.

I only use remodel cans when ABSOLUTELY necessary, and even then will add in a piece of 2x4 to an adjacent stud if possible so I can get a screw or two into something solid (which probably voids the UL listing, but oh well).
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I have done it when the location can not be exactly located on rough and needs to be perfect. I would not do this unless it is only way.
I have done plenty of drywall and it really is not that hard. Look at the guys doing it for a living and pay attention. Buy yourself a router for drywall or rent 1. The added cost and labor is not worth it. Leave a note for the inspector and i think he will be fine with it. What number could he site ?
 

jetlag

Senior Member
I have done it when the location can not be exactly located on rough and needs to be perfect. I would not do this unless it is only way.
I have done plenty of drywall and it really is not that hard. Look at the guys doing it for a living and pay attention. Buy yourself a router for drywall or rent 1. The added cost and labor is not worth it. Leave a note for the inspector and i think he will be fine with it. What number could he site ?

Well everybody wins I wont go with the remodels. Does the smaller 4 or 5 " come in new work cans. I saw the 5 " eye ball trim but no 5'' cans, over in the other section they had the 5 '' remodel all came together with the eyeball trim in box. For new work they had a seperate bracket you can buy but it was awful flimsey
 

resistance

Senior Member
Location
WA
Well everybody wins I wont go with the remodels. Does the smaller 4 or 5 " come in new work cans.
Yes.
I saw the 5 " eye ball trim but no 5'' cans, over in the other section they had the 5 '' remodel all came together with the eyeball trim in box.
Never seen this before.
Wish i had owned 1 of them years ago
Yeah, they have a number of neat stuff out there. The thing is, are they cost effective.
 

Split Bolt

Senior Member

Pretty Cool! Won't work with Lightolier though, since the "can" is part of the trim and the socket assembly is only attached to the frame-in kit by the wires or a small piece of armored cable. Oh well! Getting back to the OP, I have done this before on wood ceiling jobs where it is MUCH easier for the carpenter to cut the holes with a hole saw and I'd come back with remodelers. I've never had problems after explaining the situation to inspectors. BUT I would ask first, if I had any doubts!
 
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