Just Curious

[iwire]

Here is a post that will suprise the people that know me, I really don't think resi work should require arc flash PPE.

zog, you have obviously suffered a stroke, please seek medical attention quickly. :grin:

 

[donaldelectrician]

I have sinned almost every day for the last thirty years. Mostly in 480 buckets. I am very deliberate and carefull wich is how I've gotten away with it for 30 years. Tommorow I am going to ride my motor cycle to work, I am going to sin again and if all goes well I will spend the evening scuba diving. Most of the realy fun things in life come with a certain amount of risk.

Ain't it the truth.

 

[Chev]

There's always a choice, but since I have been exposed to electrical safety as a trainer, I risk the charge of hypocracy if I do not wear PPE, soooooo Yup I wear it! Besides, I do like the prospect of going home with all of my parts in the same OEM condition I arrived at the job in! For the record, I wear old FR rated clothing from work (I got transfered and they didn't ask for it to be returned) when I do resi, along with the 00 gloves and leather protectors, and yes safety glasses when I know something is hot.

 

[big john]

I have sinned almost every day for the last thirty years. Mostly in 480 buckets. I am very deliberate and carefull wich is how I've gotten away with it for 30 years.

I can't say I've never done it, but I will say that about a year ago I was on site when one of our buckets spontaneously blew up.

No one was working in it, door was closed. The fault occured on the line-side of the breaker so even if the bucket had been turned off, the flash still would have occured.

Seeing what the inside of that bucket looked like, and how charred everything was, I couldn't help but think about how many times I've sat with my face right in front of one of those things doing control wiring.

I won't even open MCC buckets anymore without PPE. Guys can laugh and roll their eyes, but there's just no room for error with that kind of power. The one time it happens will be one time too many.

-John

 

[StewG]

I am working in what I consider a light industrial plant, (16 years )with 480 v services, split down to 277 v for lighting and then the usual 120 panels. I don't have any PPE at all in my inventory and while I don't access panel interiors but a few times a year, I've never even given the negative possiblities a thought. May have to ask for some training or seminar. I don't shut down our MH lamps to change bulbs either. Am I living on borrowed time?

 

[zog]

I am working in what I consider a light industrial plant, (16 years )with 480 v services, split down to 277 v for lighting and then the usual 120 panels. I don't have any PPE at all in my inventory and while I don't access panel interiors but a few times a year, I've never even given the negative possiblities a thought. May have to ask for some training or seminar. I don't shut down our MH lamps to change bulbs either. Am I living on borrowed time?

Yes you are. Your employer is required to provide you with the training and PPE.

 

[tish53]

Yesterday,I did both. I needed to use a flexible CT around some incoming 480 vac 350 mcm conductors and I suited up in my CAT 2 PPE and installed the CT. I also did some visual inspection only of MCC buckets later in the day and only wore my standard cotton clothing. ( always wear cotton everday. all polyester etc. has been purged from my very outdated and ugly wardrobe). I agree with many of the previous posters about residential. no need for moon suit. But if you work in the industrial 480v world, I would not use tools in a hot mcc bucket without it.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

... But if you work in the industrial 480v world, I would not use tools in a hot mcc bucket without it.

It would be a rare case where you would be permitted to use tools, other than testing equipment, in an energized MCC bucket no matter what PPE you have on.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Yesterday,I did both. I needed to use a flexible CT around some incoming 480 vac 350 mcm conductors and I suited up in my CAT 2 PPE and installed the CT. ...

And that was the correct level of PPE for the available incident energy at that point in the circuit per the arc flash study?

 

[tish53]

Yes, the incident energy was 3.685cal/cm^2 and listed as PPE cat. 1 on the arc flash label.

 

[Lady Engineer]

You know I had this problem. I was asked to open a 200A, 480V plug-in bus duct switch mounted to a 4000A bust duct. I said to my boss, I refuse to do it. He said, I needed to, and next time he will go with me. I said, go ahead...you get fried and I will bring the salt and ketchup....LOL

I thought he was a loon, but he was serious. I agree, I'm not an electrician, just like a electrican is not an engineer. Since I'm not trained to deal with this sort of amperage, I will let the experts handle this.

I agree...I will not do it!

 

[millelec]

we generate 480V where I work, and are the sole power source for several residential high rise buildings. I have to admit to doing a lot of live 480V MCC bucket measurements w/out PPE, which has never really bothered me in past.
racking in generator output breakers w/a live bus always causes a healthy cringe tho. (as I sit at work typing this in my cotton-poly blend clothes. ) looks like we're going to look at arc fault PPE requirements here. saw the security video on youtube where the port workers racked in a breaker that had been sitting in a moist environment, last you see of them is the the orange and black cloud erupting from switchgear. ignorance was bliss...re-evaluating now.

 

[jdero]

always Hot

always Hot

When I was young I worked everything hot in a power plant and no protection except luck!
How foolish I was.

 

[LEO2854]

Working HOT

Working HOT

When I was young I worked everything hot in a power plant and no protection except luck!
How foolish I was.

This is From the 1942 AMERICAN ELECTRICIANS HAND BOOK
PG 66 158.Electricians often test circuits for the presence of voltage by touching conductors with the fingers.this method is safe where the voltage does not exceed 250 volts and is often a very convenient for locating a blown-out fuse or for ascertaning whether or not circuit is alive. Some men can endure the electric shock without discomfort wereas others cannot.Therefore the method is not feasible in some cases.
This goes on for several more paragraphs
Don't do that!


The instructor in our NFPE 70 E CLASS gave us that page cut out
We have come a long way since then be safe:grin:

 

[Dimwit]

I have done both in the past, I just left a company that allowed/ preferred for their maintenance personnel to get INSIDE cnc machines to make repairs while the machine was hot. I vividly recall seeing a millwright sitting on the shuttle table reach out and manipulate the controls to move the table a few inches by touch. These machines would cycle with the door open, so if he missed, he could have had the machine kill him in several different ways. When I approached him about this after he was out of the machine, I was made to feel like the foolish one.

BTW, this all happened with the production foreman & the Maintenance foreman standing right there. On my 3rd day with the company... Glad to be out of there.

I try to always use the proper PPE, I'm not perfect yet, but I'm getting better.

Joe