EMT vs MC

[JJWalecka]

I was taught that, in concealed work, for the most part running MC is more efficient than EMT. With MC you have both raceway and conductors installed in one shot.

Say I was hypothetically quoted
100 feet of ? EMT @ almost thirty bucks
Fittings (couplings, connectors, unistrut clips) came out to almost twenty six bucks
500 feet of 12 thhn @ seventy five dollars

That?s $131.00 Now double that to compare to 1000 feet of MC
Total $262.00


1000 feet of 12/2 mc @ $363.00
Now Mc needs supports at smaller intervals so more supports are needed in this case unstrut, threaded rod and hardware.

Using the Mc would allow me to bring each whip directly to the four inch squares while the EMT raceway would have to go to a junction box then change to MC to feed the four inch squares.

The pricing doesn?t include junction boxes say a 10x10x4. It seems that EMT would be cheaper?

Why in the heck do I have it stuck in my head that MC is a cheaper install??

What?s everyone?s thoughts on this, at what point is it cheaper to run EMT than to use MC?

 

[jmsbrush]

13 years ago I was roughing office complexes in EMT. Now days, we rough them in mc.
Extremely fast.
You will make up for it in labor, ten fold.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

I was taught that, in concealed work, for the most part running MC is more efficient than EMT. With MC you have both raceway and conductors installed in one shot.

Say I was hypothetically quoted
100 feet of ? EMT @ almost thirty bucks
Fittings (couplings, connectors, unistrut clips) came out to almost twenty six bucks
500 feet of 12 thhn @ seventy five dollars

That?s $131.00 Now double that to compare to 1000 feet of MC
Total $262.00


1000 feet of 12/2 mc @ $363.00
Now Mc needs supports at smaller intervals so more supports are needed in this case unstrut, threaded rod and hardware.

Using the Mc would allow me to bring each whip directly to the four inch squares while the EMT raceway would have to go to a junction box then change to MC to feed the four inch squares.

The pricing doesn?t include junction boxes say a 10x10x4. It seems that EMT would be cheaper?

Why in the heck do I have it stuck in my head that MC is a cheaper install??

What?s everyone?s thoughts on this, at what point is it cheaper to run EMT than to use MC?

Not sure what you mean. EMT labor/material is never cheaper than MC/BX

 

[Rewire]

One word Labor. If you are just running 100 ft how do you get to 1000 ft of mc?

 

[iwire]

IWhy in the heck do I have it stuck in my head that MC is a cheaper install??

Because it is a less costly install unless the labor is free.

Many of the plans we get for bidding show EMT, so you bid it EMT with an alt for MC and MC will be cheaper.

I was taught that, in concealed work, for the most part running MC is more efficient than EMT.

Concealed, exposed, in the air, in the walls, outside no matter where you put it cable is cheaper than raceway.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

A local business challenged our conduit rule for commercial occupancies last year. One of the facts that they cited was the increased costs for EMT. They had contractors bid the job both ways. These were contractors that have experience in both wiring methods. The total electrical for the project was a bit over $2,000,000. There was a savings of about 4.4% by using MC over EMT. (for the record our local code still does not permit MC for commercial work)

 

[iwire]

A local business challenged our conduit rule for commercial occupancies last year. One of the facts that they cited was the increased costs for EMT. They had contractors bid the job both ways. These were contractors that have experience in both wiring methods. The total electrical for the project was a bit over $2,000,000. There was a savings of about 4.4% by using MC over EMT. (for the record our local code still does not permit MC for commercial work)

Don,

I do not know what to tell you other then we can beat 4.4% by a long shot. I will try to find out how much.

I would have to question just how experienced the ECs where with cable or what the labor rates where being paid.

Was it a $2,000,000 job for all trades combined or $2,000,000 just in electrical?

 

[cdslotz]

I've run the numbers time and again, and I consistently come up with approx 25% savings in BRANCH wiring. I'm talking about EMT home runs and MC down to recepts and daisy chain light fixtures.
The problem with a GC telling me to bid it both ways is the two methods are completely different layouts, so I want to know before I take off if MC is allowed.

 

[JJWalecka]

Rewire

"One word Labor. If you are just running 100 ft how do you get to 1000 ft of mc?"

I figured 10 runs of 12/2 at one hundred feet a piece compared to a ? EMT with sixteen 12 thhn?s (Pending derating)


Now that I have been pondering awhile thought my question through. it seems two ? raceways would be needed per derating requirements. So MC would seem to be a cheaper install. Doubling the EMT material would kick the total price of EMT to approximately $524.00 as opposed to 363.00 for 1000 feet of 12/2


Iwire
"Concealed, exposed, in the air, in the walls, outside no matter where you put it cable is cheaper than raceway."

How much is the Aluminum underground MC cable that is listed for direct burial?

Seems like nice stuff, I suppose that is cheaper than PVC pipe and THWN?

Iwire
Many of the plans we get for bidding show EMT, so you bid it EMT with an alt for MC and MC will be cheaper.

That seems smart as long as you are told you could do it

 

[JJWalecka]

Iwire

I don?t have the pricing list but I was taught that PVC work in a slab was the fastest method of installation if laid out right.


Do you believe that MC cable is the cheaper install compared to PVC in a slab?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don,

I do not know what to tell you other then we can beat 4.4% by a long shot. I will try to find out how much.

I would have to question just how experienced the ECs where with cable or what the labor rates where being paid.

Was it a $2,000,000 job for all trades combined or $2,000,000 just in electrical?

Bob,
There were a number of contractors including a couple from out of the area that make extensive use of MC. The $2,000,000 was electrical only. They were all signatory contractors so everyone was using the same labor rate.
PS: This was for the total electrical job and not just the branch wiring. When you add in all of the switchgear, lighting and other things, you can have a large difference on the branch wiring and still have a small difference in the total and every job will be different.

 

[iwire]

Iwire

I don?t have the pricing list but I was taught that PVC work in a slab was the fastest method of installation if laid out right.


Do you believe that MC cable is the cheaper install compared to PVC in a slab?

I think direct bury cable would be faster still.


I just ran some quick numbers.

If you asked me to run 10,000 feet of 1/2" EMT with a hot neutral and ground I would be around $25,0000.

Change that to 12/2 MC and I would be around $11,000.

(I did not figure hangers or labor for hangers on either)

 

[iwire]

They were all signatory contractors so everyone was using the same labor rate.

Same rate as each other, which in your area I expect to be pretty high.

But regardless the figure of 4.4% makes no sense whatsoever, it is so far from my experiences and seems to be far from others experiences I have to disregard it as biased, slanted or other wise faulted.

The numbers I generated in my post above are from our actual material costs and our 'safe' labor estimating figures. (In other words I carried more hours than needed on both the MC and EMT.)

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Same rate as each other, which in your area I expect to be pretty high.

But regardless the figure of 4.4% makes no sense whatsoever, it is so far from my experiences and seems to be far from others experiences I have to disregard it as biased, slanted or other wise faulted.

The numbers I generated in my post above are from our actual material costs and our 'safe' labor estimating figures. (In other words I carried more hours than needed on both the MC and EMT.)

Yes, they all use the same labor costs, but of couse they will have differning overheads. As far as you numbers you are just looking at a circuit to circuit comparrison for that part of the job. When you look at the complete electrical project it will look different. And the guys figuring the MC did not even include the costs to comply with 210.5.

 

[iwire]

As far as you numbers you are just looking at a circuit to circuit comparrison for that part of the job. When you look at the complete electrical project it will look different. And the guys figuring the MC did not even include the costs to comply with 210.5.

You lost me, every job has branch circuits, it is cheaper to run them in MC than conduit.

Every job has feeders, they are usually cheaper to run in MC than conduit.

So matter how I slice up the job if I use MC I will blow away anybody doing the same job in pipe.

 

[adelle]

I think direct bury cable would be faster still.


I just ran some quick numbers.

If you asked me to run 10,000 feet of 1/2" EMT with a hot neutral and ground I would be around $25,0000.

Change that to 12/2 MC and I would be around $11,000.

(I did not figure hangers or labor for hangers on either)

Hee Hee

You're going to need a lot bigger than 12/2 to run a 120v 20a circuit 10,000 feet!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

You lost me, every job has branch circuits, it is cheaper to run them in MC than conduit.

Every job has feeders, they are usually cheaper to run in MC than conduit.

So matter how I slice up the job if I use MC I will blow away anybody doing the same job in pipe.

I don't know what is being done different around here. This is not the first time I have seen contractors that have experience with both wiring methods come up with less than a 10% difference between MC and conduit for the same job.

I can't say, from any type of personal experience, because I have rarely installed any MC and have never installed it for branch circuits. You have probably installed more MC in a single week than I have since I started back in 73.

 

[ksmith846]

Our method is:

1. Slab as much as possible
2. Emt home runs for longer runs of Branch Circuits and Feeders
3. MC home runs (when within VD limits)
4. MC for all the receptacles, switches etc.

This has always been our fastest and cheapest approach

 

[cdslotz]

So matter how I slice up the job if I use MC I will blow away anybody doing the same job in pipe.

If the specs don't allow, or limits the use of MC, you will probably be yanking it out.
If the spec allow use of MC per NEC, your competition will be bidding it the same way you are.

 

[iwire]

If the specs don't allow, or limits the use of MC, you will probably be yanking it out.
If the spec allow use of MC per NEC, your competition will be bidding it the same way you are.

We have never ripped out MC, we know what specs are. :roll:

But no not everyone will provide an alternate for MC.