T & M Small tool charge out

[kwired]

... You really think that I should pay for the paper towels you use to dry your hands off as a separate expense?

Customers are paying for them, but I don't believe they should be itemized on customer invoices. I had an auto repair bill recently, a fuse was only material on the invoice, and there was a waste disposal fee of $1.00 included on the invoice. Not enough money to waste time arguing over but that amount or more on every invoice adds up. Hide it in the labor charges and customers will not even second guess about it.

Any chance the small tool charge was due to the fact the EC didn't want any of the customers "product" residue on their hand tools and they were tossing them after the job?

I know we have charged for tools used when we did some pumping stations. All the hand tools (two or three linesmans screwdrivers, stippers) were bought and tossed after, as NO one would work with them due to the icky factor. They got put down on "dirty surfaces" from what I understand.

I frequently work in many icky places and always manage to wash my tools, clothes, and even truck when necessary. If you can't take a little icky at times you are in the wrong profession IMO, or you at least need to not take on jobs that involve icky and leave them for those of us that will.

 

[ed downey]

Ron,

I usaully let Electrical Contractors charge 2% to 3% of Unburdened Labor cost for Tools with a purchase price of less than $500. Tools with a purchase price of larger than $500 get charged out at 75% of NECA Tool Rental Rates or the actual cost from the Rental Facility.
-Ed

 

[nhfire77]

I frequently work in many icky places and always manage to wash my tools, clothes, and even truck when necessary. If you can't take a little icky at times you are in the wrong profession IMO, or you at least need to not take on jobs that involve icky and leave them for those of us that will.

No, icky just costs extra, like a tool charge. And you are right, I no longer need to take jobs involving poo. I am paid too good for that.

Washing linesmans? They will rust, I don't reoil pliers. That's just me.

 

[petersonra]

Customers are paying for them, but I don't believe they should be itemized on customer invoices. I had an auto repair bill recently, a fuse was only material on the invoice, and there was a waste disposal fee of $1.00 included on the invoice. Not enough money to waste time arguing over but that amount or more on every invoice adds up. Hide it in the labor charges and customers will not even second guess about it.




I frequently work in many icky places and always manage to wash my tools, clothes, and even truck when necessary. If you can't take a little icky at times you are in the wrong profession IMO, or you at least need to not take on jobs that involve icky and leave them for those of us that will.

It seems to me that tool cleaning time is a legit part of T&M expenses. It might actually be more cost effective to dispose of them then to clean them up on the clock.

 

[ceb58]

Gentleman thanks for the great response!
I?m the Consultant on this project and had nothing to do with the contract. In this case the contract does not call out what a small tool is, and that?s my problem! As a T&M contract it says very little other than the markup structure and who does what. It could have been done better but the Plant was under 12 feet of water when the Trades were called in and nothing electrical seemed to float. This is a City Waste Treatment Plant and the material to be processed just kept on coming! Overall the Owners did well under the circumstances.
One of you said: all the small tools used and charged for should be turned over to the Owner. Interesting you should say that; we now own all the ladders. It seems that we'll have to re-negotiate what a small tool is and move on from there.
Again thanks for all your input, we now can move on to more interesting items.

Not to be critical Ron, but now you tell the whole story. Working in this situation would change my opinion from my first post. I like some others would not want to carry over tools used in this situation over for other jobs. But I would request the tools back at the end for proper disposal.
Several years ago some people dumped PCB along the sides of the road on a military base near me. When it was found the contractor charged for new machinery to do the clean up. 20 years later that equipment still sets in a fenced off area unusable for any thing else. It was determined it would cost more to decontaminate the equipment than the equipment was worth.

 

[dmagyar]

What's the rest of the contract verbiage?

What's the rest of the contract verbiage?

Imho; In order to have a better discussion on the merits of "tool rental" charges maybe we should discuss what the other more typical contract sections were in this case, IE overhead and profit, which don't seem to have been mentioned so far.

With most general contractors that I've worked under in a "hard bid contract" you're directed to proceed on a change order prior to having the cost accepted. In the end you usually get screwed by then having to go to court and sue under claims to try and recover maybe $.25 on the dollar of the change; if that.

Notwithstanding that in this case it was a wastewater plant which was in distress lets withold the comments on if "you" pesonally would impose tool rental fees on a client or not and leave it to the contractor who is tasked with performance and ultimately to complete the project in as fast a time as possible.

The choice was made to make this particular job T&M for it's advantages, now with this original posting in mind they maybe don't seem as advantageous to one of the parties. In the end the contractor is just trying to maximize his profits, which is what any of us would do within the constraints of the original contract.