handy men luck out on box fill

[jetlag]

I often wonder if it is a mistake for them to state the number of conductors allowed in the plastic device boxes. An electrician can figure that . If they give the cu in thats ok. What happens is HO and handy men come in all day and decide on the box by the number of conductors listed without knowing they have to deduct 2 for the device and another for the clamp. But luck is in their favor because they dont know all the equip gr can count as one so most of the time they still get the correct box, that is until a sales person tells them they heard the grounds only count as one but they dont know any more so the customer winds up with over filled device box.

 

[jumper]

Actually, in my experience, most handymen and DIYers think that the number in the box is for cables and not single conductors.

They rarely know any box fill requirements.

 

[jetlag]

Actually, in my experience, most handymen and DIYers think that the number in the box is for cables and not single conductors.

They rarely know any box fill requirements.

Good point , and it cost the supply houses money when they return all the boxes some of which have been nailed up and tell the returns that their wife purchased the wrong boxes, lol . Cant you just see a D I Y looking puzzled when he pulls 10 , 12-2 nm cables into a 22.5 device box. I even saw at returns one day a customer that had drilled extra holes in the box because not enough knock outs , of course the returns lady didnt know the difference.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Really so no problem. If the store takes them back without restocking fee that there problem. I know places like big orange take back anything. Word of caution , never accept anything thats been opened as often it is missing parts or damaged.
If inspectors charge a reinspect charge the handyman/ homeowner is learning.
As to the numbers on box i have even seen so called electicians unable to do box fill.
Florida is a joke when it comes to who you can hire to do electrical work so we do see many unqualified workers and the numbers help some.

 

[inspector 102]

I thought that is why an electrician carries a 20 oz. framing hammer was to pound the conductors back into the box. Most of the DIY buy the 18 ci boxes to save the 10 cents each, then look at you funny when you try to explain box fill and they simply say "I can get the devise in, wanna see me do it". Had one job where the general supplied all the material and electrician did not realize they were 18 ci boxes. Spent almost a full day going back and changing them and he was mad at himself, not me.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Then they should not sell wire or breakers either.

We can not protect from stupid.

Years ago I followed a commercial electrician on a job. They pulled him off a commercial job to help on a residential remodel. He had 8 - 12-2 in a 18 cu in box.

 

[cdcengineer]

The title to this thread sounds like the title to a porn.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I thought that is why an electrician carries a 20 oz. framing hammer was to pound the conductors back into the box. Most of the DIY buy the 18 ci boxes to save the 10 cents each, then look at you funny when you try to explain box fill and they simply say "I can get the devise in, wanna see me do it". Had one job where the general supplied all the material and electrician did not realize they were 18 ci boxes. Spent almost a full day going back and changing them and he was mad at himself, not me.

The problem is they did not have an electrician. If they did there would not been an issue cause they would not have installed them. Problem is even green helpers think they are electricians.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Then they should not sell wire or breakers either.

We can not protect from stupid.

Years ago I followed a commercial electrician on a job. They pulled him off a commercial job to help on a residential remodel. He had 8 - 12-2 in a 18 cu in box.

Was working at a small company that one day sent me our commercial guy to help trim a house. He spent an hour trying to install one simple duplex receptacl. Had to put him on other things and redo it myself, he simply had no idea how to deal with plastic box's and romex.

 

[jumper]

The problem is they did not have an electrician. If they did there would not been an issue cause they would not have installed them. Problem is even green helpers think they are electricians.

But you also must remember that some "electricians" are green.:roll)

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

But you also must remember that some "electricians" are green.:roll)

Question is how much GREEN can they have before we call them an electrician. We all have seen guys that have 10 years in trade and are bright green

 

[jumper]

We all have seen guys that have 10 years in trade and are bright green

You been inspecting my work?:grin:

 

[jxofaltrds]

But you also must remember that some "electricians" are green.:roll)

They would do good today since we are all going 'green'.

 

[dbuckley]

I even saw at returns one day a customer that had drilled extra holes in the box because not enough knock outs , of course the returns lady didnt know the difference.

You just know that returned box is going to end up back on the shelf for some other poor unsuspecting homeowner to buy...

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

You been inspecting my work?:grin:

Nope have seen enough at company i was at to last me a lifetime LOL

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

You just know that returned box is going to end up back on the shelf for some other poor unsuspecting homeowner to buy...

And then they fail inspection over a 50 cent used box LOL
Actually worked 2 weeks at a company that told the green helpers to open all the holes in the plastic boxes. Lot of other bad things too but tip off was the master was one of them got the license 40 years ago when you didn't need to know much. I learned to figure them kind out fast and get out of there.

 

[resistance]

I've also seen people word questions to get answers they don't know---isn't that green? Or are they DIY's? :roll:

 

[LarryFine]

No, they shouldn't dumb-down stuff, because there are still some of us who know how to use the data.

Added: Imagine if the stopped placing MCA and MOC numbers on HVAC equipment for the same reasoning.

I know places like big orange take back anything. Word of caution , never accept anything thats been opened as often it is missing parts or damaged.

Especially fluorescent ballasts. I look for pristine wire ends on every one I buy.

 

[jetlag]

No, they shouldn't dumb-down stuff, because there are still some of us who know how to use the data.

Added: Imagine if the stopped placing MCA and MOC numbers on HVAC equipment for the same reasoning.

Especially fluorescent ballasts. I look for pristine wire ends on every one I buy.

I knew a man loved to brag how easy that was at big orange and blue, he would roll the old ballast in on a cart if anyone noticed said he had to match up. At the ballast he would put old one on shelf beside a new box and be comparing , the ballast boxes are not sealed back then , then he would open another as if looking, you got it new one he makes grease marks on with grease he has on thumb and lays in cart, then he gets another new one in box and winds up 2 for one at check out. Of course the old ballast went in the empty box on shelf for some innocent person to buy and install

 

[jumper]

I knew a man loved to brag how easy that was at big orange and blue, he would roll the old ballast in on a cart if anyone noticed said he had to match up. At the ballast he would put old one on shelf beside a new box and be comparing , the ballast boxes are not sealed back then , then he would open another as if looking, you got it new one he makes grease marks on with grease he has on thumb and lays in cart, then he gets another new one in box and winds up 2 for one at check out. Of course the old ballast went in the empty box on shelf for some innocent person to buy and install

That was just plain wrong.

I recognize that you said it was not you.