any subsitute for greenfield ??

[rt66electric]

I have been on several calls lately. Every home inspection report asks for greenfield to be covering the romex going to the pig under sink. There are usually open splices and other places (heater/hot watercloset) where green field needs to be covering exposed romex.


Is there any product that can be slipped over romex, without having to unwire the end??? Maybee something similar to the corrigated black split loom for automotive use???? Could you split carflex or surf-tube?????

 

[Cow]

Is there any product that can be slipped over romex, without having to unwire the end???

That'd sure make life easy, but I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[krisinjersey]

Would be nice

Would be nice

That's your million dollar idea! Now call inventhelp or some boby and save the rest of us from the issue.
We just run MC for these and install one metal box at the counter top height. When addressing a home inspection, couldn't you sleeve it in a short piece of EMT with a from-to and a 4" square box?

 

[stevenje]

I have been on several calls lately. Every home inspection report asks for greenfield to be covering the romex going to the pig under sink. There are usually open splices and other places (heater/hot watercloset) where green field needs to be covering exposed romex.


Is there any product that can be slipped over romex, without having to unwire the end??? Maybee something similar to the corrigated black split loom for automotive use???? Could you split carflex or surf-tube?????

Are you thinking of having the splices in the conduit? Why not just set a JB and flex to the disposal or hot water heater.

 

[Steviechia2]

greenfield to be covering the romex going to the pig under sink. There are usually open splices and other places (heater/hot watercloset) where green field needs to be covering exposed romex.

I know it's common practice to sleeve the romex but Actually rx,mc, and greenfield are not to be where subject to physical damage. Put a plug in below sink and put a cord on the pig.

 

[krisinjersey]

Pig?

Pig?

It got to be a local thing because the first time I saw it, I thought is was a typo. So what is a "pig under the sink"? No witty plumber jokes please.

 

[LarryFine]

I've seen plenty of home inspection reports that have had issues with some of the most outrageous things I've ever seen, and they're usually woefully inaccurate.

The question is whether the installation was compliant when new. If the NM isn't exposed to damage, it's not a problem. Otherwise, go ahead and get paid to fix it.

HI reports are not "enforcible" anyway. They can be used as leverage in buying, but there's no rule anything in them must be done, even if the report is accurate.

As to a split covering, I don't know of any, but you could slit a length of non-metallic flex and slip it on. You'd have no end fittings, but a 1-hole or two would secure it.

 

[jumper]

It got to be a local thing because the first time I saw it, I thought is was a typo. So what is a "pig under the sink"? No witty plumber jokes please.

Disposer/disposal. Threw me off also when I first saw it.

 

[WinZip]

I have been on several calls lately. Every home inspection report asks for greenfield to be covering the romex going to the pig under sink. There are usually open splices and other places (heater/hot watercloset) where green field needs to be covering exposed romex.


Is there any product that can be slipped over romex, without having to unwire the end??? Maybee something similar to the corrigated black split loom for automotive use???? Could you split carflex or surf-tube?????

Why not do it right an set a box under sink with receptacle an cord an male plug and for the water heater set a disko an green field to W/H

 

[al hildenbrand]

Why not do it right an set a box under sink with receptacle an cord an male plug and for the water heater set a disko an green field to W/H

Well l l l l . . . your question begs the real question about what install qualifies for "do it right".

I understand that you are saying use modern material and the current NEC (for new installs) to redo an installation done under an earlier NEC and approved by a former local AHJ.

One thing to consider: Seeing a NM whip to an under residential sink disposal as needing physical protection is not a 100% uniform opinion among all local AHJs, even today.

And as for the Home Inspector's (HI) call for physical protection, well, if there is local ordinance to back them up, OK, or if there are open flying splices, OK, but otherwise, this is an overstep on the part of the HI and introduces psychological instabilities in realestate transactions based a the HI's personal desires.

 

[WinZip]

Well l l l l . . . your question begs the real question about what install qualifies for "do it right".

I understand that you are saying use modern material and the current NEC (for new installs) to redo an installation done under an earlier NEC and approved by a former local AHJ.

One thing to consider: Seeing a NM whip to an under residential sink disposal as needing physical protection is not a 100% uniform opinion among all local AHJs, even today.

And as for the Home Inspector's (HI) call for physical protection, well, if there is local ordinance to back them up, OK, or if there are open flying splices, OK, but otherwise, this is an overstep on the part of the HI and introduces psychological instabilities in realestate transactions based a the HI's personal desires.

Well my point is if the HI is for the buyer an he redid things the proper way an leave business card or sticker on the electrical panel it may bring in more work from the buyer.

Just my opinion.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Well my point is if the HI is for the buyer an he redid things the proper way an leave business card or sticker on the electrical panel it may bring in more work from the buyer.

Just my opinion.

The electrician's work prospecting "proper way", a way described in the NEC but not required by the NEC, is the seller's pointless waste of money . . . so why sell to this buyer when there are more buyer's around?

 

[growler]

this is an overstep on the part of the HI and introduces psychological instabilities in realestate transactions based a the HI's personal desires.

. . . so why sell to this buyer when there are more buyer's around?

I don't agree with either of those statements.

First a home inspection is not a code inspection and the home inspector's opinion does count. That's why they hired him/her. If protecting a disposal feed will sell a house then it well worth it if it makes the buyer happy.

Second there is only one person in America right now that wishes to buy a house. There are no other buyers. I'm joking but only a little bit.

 

[growler]

One thing to consider: Seeing a NM whip to an under residential sink disposal as needing physical protection is not a 100% uniform opinion among all local AHJs, even today.

Al I tried doing things your way a few years ago and didn't get anywhere. I even had the head electrical inspector for the county call one home inspector and tell him an install was to code and didn't need to be changed. Didn't do a darn bit of good because a home inspection it not a code inspection and the inspector's opinion does count because they represent the buyer and the buyer listens to them.

Most of the time the buyer just wants to see that the seller has spent a few bucks on repairs and then they are happy. If you make a few of these little changes and give them a detailed invoice showing the work was done by a licensed electrician then the buyer is satisfied.

I think it's all just a stupid game but it's not my job to talk people out of giving me money.

 

[Greg1707]

I know it's common practice to sleeve the romex but Actually rx,mc, and greenfield are not to be where subject to physical damage. Put a plug in below sink and put a cord on the pig.[/QUOTE]

Is any wiring method allowed where exposed to physical damage? Would not a cord/plug be prohibited where exposed to physical damage?

Isn't the real issue what constitutes "physical damage."

 

[al hildenbrand]

I think it's all just a stupid game but it's not my job to talk people out of giving me money.

My experience has been that the seller is the one who comes to me and is already upset. The seller has already had to pay a different inspector to do a pre-listing inspection and the seller has done a lot of repairs and improvement already. Then the buyer's HI calls out things that weren't on any earlier report. Now, he has something coming at him/er that smells hinky and he's trying to figure out what's true.

The buyer isn't going to pay me, the seller is.

The seller's commonly highly motivated to not spend any more money, and, wanting to sell him my services, I:

Choose One

1. Wisely find the seller the minimum cost, explaining the legal, enforceable local minimum correction by ordinance and let him choose what to do about the realestate negotiation.
2. Say, "Oh, well Mr. Seller, I'll do what the buyer's HI wants and do it even a more costly way 'cause that's 'doing it right' as if it was a brand new installation under today's more costly Code."
3. Give the seller a price on the HI repair exactly as the HI describes.

Either way, I'll happily do the work the seller pays me to do.

Which do you think the seller is going to choose?

I honestly never know. I do know the local Code minimum and I'll share knowledge of that with the seller to establish a base amount of work below which I can't go.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Isn't the real issue what constitutes "physical damage."

I agree. For a simple whip of NM coming out of the wall behind a disposal and going down under it to get into the disposal wiring compartment, some will look at that and say there's nothing that is likely to be stored here that will damage the NM. Especially if the sink is deep and the disposal is long.

When I apprenticed, we used to wrap the NM whip around the plumbing waste stub, and then tape it so the drywallers wouldn't bury it. That NM is already buffered from damage by the cage of plumbing pipes.

 

[rt66electric]

thank you for your insights.

I have been callled by by the the the buyer and seller. The buyer HI report comes in with two or more pages of "problems". The seller at this time gets upset at" never been seen before" problems. The realtor asks for three or more estimates for a $75 repair.

Negotiations occur

It is often the Insurance /or/ loan Underwiters that decide the importance of repairs


I will usually make a day or half day of repairs ( put covers on 1960's round j-boxes, disconnects on HW tanks ) EASY MONEY

It is amazing how HI are able to find open j-boxes and exposed romex, But cannot observe a #14 wire on a 60amp breaker.


The buyer/sellers are usually happy with a detailed job ticket of item completed.

I have also wrote scathing reports bashing HI's and there lack of code knowledge.
My reports are tailored for who pays me. ( that zinsco panel has worked for 40 years-why replace it?--- or --- sure I can easily swap it out) I feel like a lawyer: whoever is paying gets my opinon.

There is usally a $ amount in the budget/escrow, the trick is to figure how much it is and bid accordingly.

 

[growler]

One thing to consider: Seeing a NM whip to an under residential sink disposal as needing physical protection is not a 100% uniform opinion among all local AHJs, even today.

OK you are correct that 100% of electrical inspectors and even home inspectors will not write up NM running to the disposal. I agree with that. But some will and I have no way of knowing who will be inspecting in the future.

What I can "guarantee" is that if I run this in greenfield that it will pass all inspections and it doesn't matter who the inspector is because it will be protected and strapped so there is nothing for them to write up.

The same goes for a disconnect and greenfield at the water heater.

I give a warranty on all work and if a future home inspector can find fault with my work I will take care of the problem for free and that hasn't happened so far.

The most costly thing a homeowner can do is leave a house they are trying to sell on the market because next month is may be worth much less than today.

If the only thing standing in the way of a home sell is a little geenfield at the disposal and water heater it would be crazy to argue about it just so an electrician can say he is a little smarter than a home inspector.

We are not talking about real high dollar repairs here and the most important thing is to get the home sold. Sales is a confidence game and if people start to lose confidense in the home inspector and his report they may not buy the house so it's important not to make him look like an idiot (even if he is).

All I ever guarantee on one of these jobs is that I have taken care of all faults found during the home inspection process and that all items repaired are under warranty and this has worked so far. I brand the panel with a sticker and leave business cards for the inspector and new owner and this is how you get a foot in the door with the buyer.

The stuff you repaired is under warranty and all the items missed by the home inspector are not and that's the real goal here is to be the one called once they figure this out. The new owner looks at your work and it looks very professional and the rest of the place looks like crap. Who are they going to call?

Homeowners don't know anything about electrical codes and if they see the disposal is run in romex and they think it looks bad and the home inspectors doesn't like it that's all that counts for them. Their opinion does count, not legally but as consumers because they get to decide where to spend their money.

 

[qcroanoke]

OK
1. The most costly thing a homeowner can do is leave a house they are trying to sell on the market because next month is may be worth much less than today.

2. If the only thing standing in the way of a home sell is a little geenfield at the disposal and water heater it would be crazy to argue about it just so an electrician can say he is a little smarter than a home inspector.

3. We are not talking about real high dollar repairs here and the most important thing is to get the home sold.

1. Not to mention the homeowner is out another monthly payment!

2.I have often told the homeowner there is nothing wrong or illegal about it, but, if it gets your home sold I think you should do it.

3. I agree, if we were talking big money it would be a whole nuther ball game.