Grounding electrode system

[nizak]

Are there any exceptions for the grounding electrode conductor not be taken to the first service disconnect means? Utility does not allow it to come out of the meter socket or ct can .I didn't think that it could come out of a panel that is located after the first point of disconnect, am I wrong? Have another contractor who feels it's code compliant to come to the first distribution panel with it instead of outside to the first disconnect. Thanks.

 

[iwire]

Are there any exceptions for the grounding electrode conductor not be taken to the first service disconnect means? Utility does not allow it to come out of the meter socket or ct can .I didn't think that it could come out of a panel that is located after the first point of disconnect, am I wrong? Have another contractor who feels it's code compliant to come to the first distribution panel with it instead of outside to the first disconnect. Thanks.

It has to go between the point of connection of the utility and the first disconnecting means.

The power company can keep you out of the meter socket but they cannot keep you out of the service disconnecting means.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Are there any exceptions for the grounding electrode conductor not be taken to the first service disconnect means? Utility does not allow it to come out of the meter socket or ct can .I didn't think that it could come out of a panel that is located after the first point of disconnect, am I wrong? Have another contractor who feels it's code compliant to come to the first distribution panel with it instead of outside to the first disconnect. Thanks.

The meter is not a disconnect means. It is the 'cash register'.

 

[KevinVost]

The meter is not a disconnect means. It is the 'cash register'.

So true.........
:grin::grin::grin::grin:

 

[augie47]

250.104 describes situations with buildings of multiple occupancy which can alter the connection points.

 

[iwire]

250.104 would be bonding, not grounding.

250.24(A)(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end
of the service drop or service lateral to and including the
terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is
connected at the service disconnecting means.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Has anyone seen the GEC attached at the weather head as shown in exhibit 250.8?

Parallel conductors come to mind?

Help me understand that connection point.

 

[roger]

Has anyone seen the GEC attached at the weather head as shown in exhibit 250.8?

Parallel conductors come to mind?

Help me understand that connection point.

I have but it was in industrial establishments.

Roger

 

[jxofaltrds]

I have but it was in industrial establishments.

Roger

So that I understand. In this example all bonding of the other electrodes would have to be outside of the main disconnect. If any bonding was done in the main disconnect you would have paralleled conductors. Correct?

 

[augie47]

250.104 would be bonding, not grounding.

Bob, I agree, but, it appears if you have a building that meets the requirements set forth in 250.104(A)(2) you would be "bonding" to the individual water supply lines. In that case, even though you might have metallic underground water piping you would not necessarily have a grounding electrode from the service to the water would you ?

Bit "tricky" to me there.

 

[hurk27]

So that I understand. In this example all bonding of the other electrodes would have to be outside of the main disconnect. If any bonding was done in the main disconnect you would have paralleled conductors. Correct?

I don't see the parallel connection?

If a GEC went to the grounded conductor at the weather head, down to a ground rod, and lets say water pipe GEC came out of the main breaker panel, the only thing that would be parallel would be the Earth between the two?
I don't think the NEC considers the Earth as a parallel conductor. if it did we would have problems, since every neutral would be paralleled by electrodes at every out building (pre 2008), or between the transformer and the building.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I don't see the parallel connection?

If a GEC went to the grounded conductor at the weather head, down to a ground rod, and lets say water pipe GEC came out of the main breaker panel, the only thing that would be parallel would be the Earth between the two?
I don't think the NEC considers the Earth as a parallel conductor. if it did we would have problems, since every neutral would be paralleled by electrodes at every out building (pre 2008), or between the transformer and the building.

So in your example the grounded conductor would (could) be the bonding jumper? Per 250.64(F).

Wouldn't this make the grounded conductor part of the grounding electrode system? Per 250.50.

I just see problems with the attachment at the weather head and am just trying to understand.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Wouldn't this make the grounded conductor part of the grounding electrode system? Per 250.50.

I just see problems with the attachment at the weather head and am just trying to understand.

The code requires us to tie the grounded conductor to the GEC so I am not following what the problem would be. The attachment at the weatherhead is perfectly legit.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I don't see the parallel connection?

If a GEC went to the grounded conductor at the weather head, down to a ground rod, and lets say water pipe GEC came out of the main breaker panel, the only thing that would be parallel would be the Earth between the two?
I don't think the NEC considers the Earth as a parallel conductor. if it did we would have problems, since every neutral would be paralleled by electrodes at every out building (pre 2008), or between the transformer and the building.

PS. You can only have one GEC. I'll probably lose this one.

It was to late to edit the previous post.

 

[Smart $]

PS. You can only have one GEC. I'll probably lose this one.

I agree... so you can take consolation in that if you lose, you'll not be the only one.

But to add to the technicality of the statement, you can only connect the GES at a single point even if there are multiple GEC's. It is my understanding that you can only have multiple GEC connections to busbar and the connections must be adjacent to each other. Can't remember if the last part is code or just a sound installation practice.

 

[ceb58]

The code requires us to tie the grounded conductor to the GEC so I am not following what the problem would be. The attachment at the weatherhead is perfectly legit.

Just got through doing a rehab on a communication building. When the building was built they brought the service conductors it to a trough. In the trough they connected the GEC to the grounded conductor with a H tap. From there they tapped of the conductors to feed 3 125amp disconnects.