What do you say/do when you can?t get paid?

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1900box

Member
Location
midwest
Ok you have a nice job with a signed contract. Supplies and labor all show up, work is progressing as planned. Maybe you got some money up front or maybe you have been paid on a draw or two.

Now it's towards the end of the project, perhaps you?ve done a change. You have faxed in a bill on the 25th or whatever the arrangement is. Now when you call the office/project manager for a check you are told wait until:

The person who cuts the checks get?s back from vacation 2 weeks from now.

Do not call us for a check, we will call you when the check is ready.

The General Contractor hasn?t been paid, so you don?t get paid.

We have to wait until the other trades finish before the office will do a check.

We have to wait for a board meeting, that?s a month from now.

The project manager went on vacation and didn?t turn in his paperwork; he will be back in two weeks.

The project manager has been let go and we don?t have a record of the changes you speak of.

The project manager says that the general contractor put all the money in a CD, if you could just wait 90 days, and I?ve got some other prints for you to look at.

The job came in over budget and the sales man screwed it up and there is just no money for the extra.:grin: I?ll make it up to you on the next job.

The project manager should not have told you to do the change. This is all new to me, what changes?

OK you will need to bring in a waiver of lien that is signed, and then when we (the GC) send the waiver to the engineer, they will release the funds, sooo you get a check soon. Call back next week.

We spent the money, we can pay next quarter. Villages do this all the time.
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How do you get paid? This has to happen all the time.

Do you have your lawyer get involved, first sign of trouble? How much time to you give the GC to pay?

Do you wait until next month, when the person that cuts the checks gets back from vacation?

In the past I have filled out mechanics liens and faxed them over to the GC, sometimes that would get me a check. But that muddies the water a bit.

It is downright annoying trying to get the final payment, retainage, or the last change order.

A few years ago this didn?t bother me so much because things were booming and whenever the GC decided to send out the final payment it was like found money.

How do you ?make? somebody give you a check?
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
Boy you covered all the bases, very good;)

I ask a lot of question before I start the job. Such as I require payment when I'm done. And I find out who's in charge and where it will come from.

I know lots of companies have a secretary that does credit checks on customers before starting a large project.
I certainally would not sign a lien waver at this point.

I don't ussually require a deposit. But some times it really helps to find out how hard it will be to collect a check.

Did you use Siemens. You know they just had a recall on certain products;)
I have seen a hot head take every thing out and said thier was a recall.
I don't condone it. And the State Board would not either.

Your right a couple years ago this was a lot different.
 
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danickstr

Senior Member
One thing to do is to prepare about 6 or seven copies of the same letter of complaint with different agencies or bureaus names at the top, and send them to the GC. Also, perhaps prepare a letter to the homeowner/company that is in charge of paying the GC explaining your right to lien.

Tell them that they are going to go out with stamps on them unless payment is arranged within 30 days.

This can anger them so I would use it only a last resort, if you realize you probably won't work for them again.
 

1900box

Member
Location
midwest
For example say that I (me) Mr.1900 Box call the GC and say ?Good Morning GC, I was told that there would be a check for me today, before I get the wavers ready I just wanted to make sure the check was ready.?

GC says ?Nope sorry, printer that prints out the checks is broken. Call back next week. Or whatever?

Now, right here what do you do? Send an email? Wait? Call your lawyer and have the lawyer write a letter? Go to the GC in person? Beg, lie, stop work, or bluff.

Has anybody done the lawyer thing? I guess if the GC doesn?t pay then he is in breach of contract. But lawyers are expensive, so is waiting on money. Not to mention that it is annoying all that waiting. I can be patient but what kills me is the part when they say ?you can pick up a check next week?. Then next week comes and goes; now you are told next month on the 15th, and on and on and on. Now we wasted two months wating.

When you send an invoice to the GC for 25,000.00. The GC gives you a check for 10,000.00. Do you cash the check? Refuse the check? I need the money, but I don?t need to get short paid. Now what?? Does that set the bar for getting short paid with that GC?
 
What does the contract or agreement say about payment? If it says "final payment is due on receipt of invoice", then it's due when they get it. Period. If someone told me they were out of checks I might give them a week, but otherwise I'd ask for cash or a wire transfer. That's also what the mechanics lien is for.

When you send an invoice to the GC for 25,000.00. The GC gives you a check for 10,000.00. Do you cash the check? Refuse the check? I need the money, but I don?t need to get short paid. Now what?? Does that set the bar for getting short paid with that GC?

Cash the check and send another invoice for the remainder with interest. My standard language says either "due on receipt" or "due within 15 days of receipt" and "invoices more than 30 days past due will accrue interest of 1.5% per month". I'll keep sending invoices until they're paid, unless it's down to some nominal amount. It's really not worth hassling for the last $50 on a $25k job.

Also, language on a check that says "Paid in full" is pretty much meaningless (see http://www.snopes.com/business/bank/paidfull.asp)
 

CDELECT

Member
Know who your dealing with, run a credit check on both the customers and the GC's before you enter into any large dollar contracts.

Seek the help of an attorney in drafting contracts for these large dollar projects.

Don't release a waver without the advice of an attorney, if payments are held back, don't fall for the when we get the waver, let your attorney handle the waver process.

There are times when the customer has no clue that the CG did not pay his subs, so a letter of intent to lien sent to the customer by your attorney can work wonders.

An attorney is not a big expense in drafting and servicing contracts, they are a big help.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
That is where the wording in the contract must be clear as to when and what stages payment is due. If it is residential work a call to the bank who is handling the financing stating you have not been paid as agreed on by the GC and in x# of days you will be filing a lien. That will get things moving. The bank doesn't want to get tied up in clearing up lien wavers.
 

1900box

Member
Location
midwest
What about jobs when a professional engineering company is supervising the work, can the engineer “direct” the GC to pay? Engineers can direct the work, what about the payments?


On all the jobs I’ve done, I never talked much to the engineer; I would just submit paperwork/cut sheets. Any conversations with the engineer were directly related to the job or weather.


Do engineers want to hear about payment issues? I am most generally tight lipped at work because it’s really between me and the GC (or is it?). Is it professional to approach the engineering company regarding payments? If so at what point 30 days past due, 60 days, if the GC doesn’t pay the past due interest?
 
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mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
What about jobs when a professional engineering company is supervising the work, can the engineer ?direct? the GC to pay? Engineers can direct the work, what about the payments?


On all the jobs I?ve done, I never talked much to the engineer; I would just submit paperwork/cut sheets. Any conversations with the engineer were directly related to the job or weather.


Do engineers want to hear about payment issues? I am most generally tight lipped at work because it?s really between me and the GC (or is it?). Is it professional to approach the engineering company regarding payments? If so at what point 30 days past due, 60 days, if the GC doesn?t pay the past due interest?

The engineers role is whatever your contract says. If it is silent about the engineers role it still may be worth griping to him in case he has some clout.

Sometimes the best way to get paid is to threaten to stop working. If that doesn't work the next step could be to stop working. You should however discuss this with your lawyer first because there may be something in your contract that would put you in default.
 

GUNNING

Senior Member
NTO / owners don't like GC's that stiff subs here.

NTO / owners don't like GC's that stiff subs here.

In FL when a job starts a NTO (notice to owner) goes out. It means you are in privity with the owner. You are not a subcontractor but a contractor working on his property with his permission via an agreement between you and another party.
Cash the check. Send another bill to the owner. Make sure change orders are signed. Foreclose on the property when the job is done. In the mean time get a construction loan on the premise you will get paid and own the property when the job is done for cash flow purposes. Tell the owner what you have done and you are putting a lean on his property till the job is complete and you get paid. He will need a lawyer the GC will need a lawyer it costs $9 to file the paperwork at the court house. You will get paid, tack an interest provision on the lein, something draconian but legal.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
What about jobs when a professional engineering company is supervising the work, can the engineer ?direct? the GC to pay? Engineers can direct the work, what about the payments?


On all the jobs I?ve done, I never talked much to the engineer; I would just submit paperwork/cut sheets. Any conversations with the engineer were directly related to the job or weather.


Do engineers want to hear about payment issues? I am most generally tight lipped at work because it?s really between me and the GC (or is it?). Is it professional to approach the engineering company regarding payments? If so at what point 30 days past due, 60 days, if the GC doesn?t pay the past due interest?

Unless the engineer is tasked with project management, the best you can hope for is a sympathetic ear. We do occasional designs that are built by others. I'll answer all the technical questions you can dream up (correct answers may cost extra :grin:), but I won't stick my nose in the sub-GC relationship, no matter how nice a guy you are.
 

sparky=t

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
one option on commercial jobs is to send out the intent to lien letter as soon as you get the contract, when the customer asks " why are you liening my job when you have not started yet?" you can reply I am not liening your job, I am letting you know it is my INTENT to lien if you do not pay me as agreed!
If he was going to pay you he should have no problem with it!
 

email

New member
Hello all,

With my many years of experience in dealing with engineering firms I have never seen an engineer successfully try to get an owner/developer/municipality to pay the contractor, as long as they get paid they really do not care. And even if they did care they can`t do much. Their job is to make sure you execute the work in the correct mode and in time.

Regards,
email
 

rt66electric

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
Go to the dude's house

Go to the dude's house

I have ( me and my GRUFFY buddy) have gone to the dudes personal residence. I know his 14 daughter was intimidated when we handed her the bill.
 
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