branch circuit extensions

[ASG]

What if you were replacing a receptacle in a HCF that didn't have a ground? Would you have to comply with 517.13 or would you only have to comply with 406.3 (D)? Assume NEC, not MA.

 

[LEO2854]

What if you were replacing a receptacle in a HCF that didn't have a ground? Would you have to comply with 517.13 or would you only have to comply with 406.3 (D)? Assume NEC, not MA.

Read 517.1 I beleave only the rules of ARTICLE 517 Apply to health care facilities unless otherwise noted in ARTICLE 517.

 

[LEO2854]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket but I'm not so sure that old A.C. (B.X.) cable without the bonding strap meets the 250.118 requirement . I was always told that it was this type of

Yes the old( B.X )Before the 1940's did not have a bonding strip, But if insalled corectly the metal jackett was so heavy duty it is a good ground so adding a ground screw to the metal box to ground a new recptacal Should work just test it after the install

 

[hurk27]

I have always used GFCI circuit breakers,
or GFCI receptacles for a local room extension.

You can work your way through these cites:

ECG & two wire cable: 250.130(C)

382.10 Uses Permitted. Nonmetallic extensions shall be
permitted only in accordance with 382.10(A), (B), and (C).
(A) From an Existing Outlet. The extension shall be from
an existing outlet on a 15- or 20-ampere branch circuit.
Where a concealable nonmetallic extension originates from
a non?grounding-type receptacle, the installation shall comply
with 250.130(C), 406.3(D)(3)(b), or 406.3(D)(3)(c).

382.12 Uses Not Permitted.
Nonmetallic extensions shall not be used as follows:
(1) In unfinished basements, attics, or roof spaces
(2)
(3)
(4) Where run through a floor or partition,
or outside the room in which it originates

Do you realize 382 is for a special manufactured thin (very) flat cable that has to be UL listed, this is not NM, I have one of these kits for this, and it looks like a flat ribbon cable that you can glue to the surface of the drywall and mud and paint over to make it blend in. a home owner gave it to me after I wouldn't use it to make a run under his carpet to another wall, I just didn't like this stuff, or the way it was made, the kit has the special crimper's and two rolls of the cable one with 3 conductors and one with 4 conductors, maybe I take a photo of it and post it tomorrow night, yes it's scary stuff. I have had it for over 10 years, never took it out of the case it came in.

I could see someone using this stuff and later on the home owner forgetting its there and go to hang a picture over it and drive a nail right through it. I remember the discussion at one of the IAEI sectional meetings and I had brought this with me, they had a field day with it, and like me they could not believe it was just put in the 2002 code, or did my local IAEI chapter, but UL does list it, and they put it in the book.

382.2 Definitions.
Concealable Nonmetallic Extension. A listed assembly of
two, three, or four insulated circuit conductors within a
nonmetallic jacket, an extruded thermoplastic covering, or
a sealed nonmetallic covering. The classification includes
surface extensions intended for mounting directly on the
surface of walls or ceilings, and concealed with paint, texture,
joint compound, plaster, wallpaper, tile, wall paneling,
or other similar materials.

 

[hurk27]

guess my memory is worser then I thought, its been in the code book for a while, but in 2008 much was changed and now requires it to be listed, as the stuff I had (must have tossed it when I moved to my new house couldn't find it) was most likely not listed, it looked just like this stuff in this picture attached:

from IAEI's web site found here:
Analysis of Changes, NEC-2008, Part II

and it now require to be plug and cord connected which they supply the ends. I still do not like the idea, and as I was trying to locate a photo of it, I ran across many building deptments that have removed 382 out of their local codes who also don't like it.

But any way this is not anything like what the OP was about or wanted to use.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I could see someone using this stuff and later on the home owner forgetting its there and go to hang a picture over it and drive a nail right through it.

I saw this stuff demoed at CES last January by Southwire I think. They had me drive a nail through it. The special GFCI or AFCI end cap tripped with no big spark and All was ok they claimed. .........

 

[hurk27]

I saw this stuff demoed at CES last January by Southwire I think. They had me drive a nail through it. The special GFCI or AFCI end cap tripped with no big spark and All was ok they claimed. .........

All is not ok, it would have to be replaced and wall repaired again:roll:

yes the new stuff is stacked three conductors each layer (all of the same conductor), the two outside layers are the grounding conductors, next in both front and back is the grounded conductors and the hot in in the middle/center layer, and they now require an AFCI/GFCI on the plug in end.

the stuff I had was all conductors on one layer side by side, with no AFCI/GFCI protection. read about south wires version, and that they are "helping UL set the standards":roll:

of course as you can see this a manufactures push to get this in the code again.

 

[glene77is]

Do you realize ...

Hurk,

Thank you for the comment.
I will take it under advisement, and read up on this.

 

[glene77is]

Yes the old( B.X )Before the 1940's did not have a bonding strip, But if insalled corectly the metal jackett was so heavy duty it is a good ground so adding a ground screw to the metal box to ground a new recptacal Should work just test it after the install

"the metal jackett was so heavy duty" was steel.
We had to wear gloves, in New York, in the 1960's.