IC or Air Tight cans?

[MA_Electrician1]

I'm wiring a new house here in Massachusetts. Its a single family home with the second floor not being finished. This is being done by the builder to bring down the price of the home by giving the home buyer the option to upgrade down the road. I'm installing a bunch of recessed cans on the first floor. The entire second floor has a fully covered floor but that level isn't being occupied at this time.

Do i need to install Air Tight cans on the first floor?
Or can i just put in regular IC cans?

Thank you.

 

[LEO2854]

I'm wiring a new house here in Massachusetts. Its a single family home with the second floor not being finished. This is being done by the builder to bring down the price of the home by giving the home buyer the option to upgrade down the road. I'm installing a bunch of recessed cans on the first floor. The entire second floor has a fully covered floor but that level isn't being occupied at this time.

Do i need to install Air Tight cans on the first floor?
Or can i just put in regular IC cans?

Thank you.

If your job is in the city of newton you are required to.
allso look in the mass building code.
but ether way call your inspector and ask him.

 

[danickstr]

what is the cost difference between regular IC and air tite IC?

 

[hurk27]

what is the cost difference between regular IC and air tite IC?

regular are not air tight, and air tight are air tight:roll:

 

[hurk27]

what is the cost difference between regular IC and air tite IC?

Whoops wrong question:roll:

 

[danickstr]

Hurk, there are IC cans that are not rated air tite, or at least there were the last time I installed them.

 

[danickstr]

No editing, I meant to say it is also sometimes a trim/can combo issue, but my point is more about cost.

Also, if the attic will be empty, the option to insulate the attic around the IC can would be better. it is noise insulation later.

 

[infinity]

They cans are on the first floor without insulation?

 

[goldstar]

I'm wiring a new house here in Massachusetts. Its a single family home with the second floor not being finished. This is being done by the builder to bring down the price of the home by giving the home buyer the option to upgrade down the road. I'm installing a bunch of recessed cans on the first floor. The entire second floor has a fully covered floor but that level isn't being occupied at this time.

Do i need to install Air Tight cans on the first floor?

IMHO you would. There will be insulation between the joists (for I-value, noise or otherwise) and unless the 2nd floor gets finished, that area above the ceiling is considered the attic. Bear in mind that if you use IC's, in most cases you'll be restricted to 65 watt R-bulbs. Depending on the can, you may be able to use a PAR bulb if you need a brighter light.

Or can i just put in regular IC cans?

You can only use std. cans if there is no insulation

 

[bradleyelectric]

IMHO you would. There will be insulation between the joists (for I-value, noise or otherwise) and unless the 2nd floor gets finished, that area above the ceiling is considered the attic. Bear in mind that if you use IC's, in most cases you'll be restricted to 65 watt R-bulbs. Depending on the can, you may be able to use a PAR bulb if you need a brighter light.
You can only use std. cans if there is no insulation

He never asked about stanard cans. He asked if he can use InsulationContact cans as opposed to Air Tight IC. He never stated what would be insulated and what wouldn't be insulated though. Just that the upstairs wouldn't be finished. I'd hope it would be insulated but its not my house or project so that doesn't apply.

 

[shepelec]

You need to use air tight IC cans. The air tight is per the MA building code as the second floor will be considered an unfinished attic.

You also need to be sure the town your working in has not adopted the new "Stretch Energy Code" as there are additional requirements. I don't do much resi work so I can't help you with those.

 

[LEO2854]

IMHO you would. There will be insulation between the joists (for I-value, noise or otherwise) and unless the 2nd floor gets finished, that area above the ceiling is considered the attic. Bear in mind that if you use IC's, in most cases you'll be restricted to 65 watt R-bulbs. Depending on the can, you may be able to use a PAR bulb if you need a brighter light.

You can only use std. cans if there is no insulation.
?Where in the NEC does it say that?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_11_sec002_par027.htm

 

[goldstar]

You can only use std. cans if there is no insulation.
?Where in the NEC does it say that?

Is the NEC the only code we have to deal with ?

If it is not mentioned specifically in the NEC are we absolved from observing all other codes ?

The fact is when you have an area where there is insulation contact you are required to use IC's or air-tight cans (depending on the jurisdiction you are in). If you don't have insulation contact would you still install IC cans and be restricted to 65 watt bulbs ?

I'm confused by your response.

 

[goldstar]

He never asked about stanard cans. He asked if he can use InsulationContact cans as opposed to Air Tight IC. He never stated what would be insulated and what wouldn't be insulated though. Just that the upstairs wouldn't be finished. I'd hope it would be insulated but its not my house or project so that doesn't apply.

OK. I understand that he didn't say it was going to be insulated but, think about this logically. He's not in Florida he's in Mass. If the ceiling is not going to be insulated the HO's are going to freeze in the winter. All the heat will go up through the ceiling and through the roof. The heating system will be running constantly. If it's in the summer the heat will permeate through the ceiling and the AC will run constantly.

So, judging from the OP the builder will then, in fact, not save the HO a dime. You need to make certain assumptions with the way some posts are presented.

 

[LEO2854]

Is the NEC the only code we have to deal with ?

If it is not mentioned specifically in the NEC are we absolved from observing all other codes ?

The fact is when you have an area where there is insulation contact you are required to use IC's or air-tight cans (depending on the jurisdiction you are in). If you don't have insulation contact would you still install IC cans and be restricted to 65 watt bulbs ?

I'm confused by your response.

goldstar.
In mass we can only install IC's its in the building code ,They are taking into account that in that insulation will be installed later on.
As for the 65watt limit i have not seen that before but i will look into that:roll:

 

[goldstar]

goldstar.
In mass we can only install IC's its in the building code ,They are taking into account that in that insulation will be installed later on.

Kind of wierd that they would make you install IC's on the outside chance that you might install insulation somewhere down the road, but I believe you.

As for the 65watt limit i have not seen that before but i will look into that:roll:

If you look at the label inside most of the IC cans they will indicate what bulbs you can use. There are some new work cans that are actually a can within a can. Some of those 6" cans will allow you to use a 95 Watt, PAR-38 bulb.

 

[MA_Electrician1]

YES, the ceiling is going to be insulated.

I called the inspector but he was out and he never returned my phone call.....

I'm going to spend the extra money and be safe by installing the Air Tight cans.

Thanks

:roll:

 

[danickstr]

I looked at Juno 4" cans, and the air loc is about the same money as the non-IC cans. I didn't see any IC non air-tite.

 

[kwired]

I'm wiring a new house here in Massachusetts. Its a single family home with the second floor not being finished. This is being done by the builder to bring down the price of the home by giving the home buyer the option to upgrade down the road. I'm installing a bunch of recessed cans on the first floor. The entire second floor has a fully covered floor but that level isn't being occupied at this time.

Do i need to install Air Tight cans on the first floor?
Or can i just put in regular IC cans?

Thank you.

YES, the ceiling is going to be insulated.

I called the inspector but he was out and he never returned my phone call.....

I'm going to spend the extra money and be safe by installing the Air Tight cans.

Thanks

:roll:

Everyone is reading between the lines. It is a ceiling between floors that happens to have insulation in it. The upper level is also intended to be unoccupied at least at first but does have a floor so it is not necessarily unused and may even be air conditioned. Question is not IC or NON -IC it is air tight or non air tight.