Stand off brackets

[jetlag]

Stand of brackets work fine on multi gang nail on boxes because the box clamp holds the cable so it cant back out past the the sheath when device is pushed in the box. But on a single gang a 14/2 cable will slide back in the stand off bracket . 314.17 c exception states the cable must be secured with in 8 '' of the box.. I dont consider a stand off as securing the cable, it only supports it . I try to avoid the stand offs as much as possible , I can come down both side of a stud and have 2 cables under each staple , then drill thru the stud at the box and have 4 cables, with 2 in each end of box . Thanks for any comments about the brackets not " securing " the cable to framing member.

 

[infinity]

What do you mean by a stand off bracket? Are you referencing a 3M Stack-it?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have used cable stackers on a few occasions for one gang boxes but my one gangs (P&S) have clamps that hold the wire. I never thought about what you are saying but you may have a good point--- Honestly I doubt you would have much trouble using one gangs without the clamp.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What do you mean by a stand off bracket? Are you referencing a 3M Stack-it?

Yes, that is what I believe he means.

 

[LarryFine]

I use the EGC's to assure the cables won't pull out. The only time that doesn't work is when there are only two cables in the box, and they share a single KO.

In that case, I'll use a staple, so it's a non-issue.

 

[George Stolz]

A staple and a zip tie take up less space in tool bags and do a better job. I avoid Stak-Its like the plague.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

A staple and a zip tie take up less space in tool bags and do a better job. I avoid Stak-Its like the plague.

What about 300.11(C)

300.11(C) Cables Not Used as Means of Support. Cable wiring methods shall not be used as a means of support for other cables, raceways, or nonelectrical equipment.

 

[infinity]

What about 300.11(C)

How does that apply to a staple with a cable tie around the staple and the cable?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

How does that apply to a staple with a cable tie around the staple and the cable?

Are you not supporting the cables with the other cable with the tie?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is a MH Grahic

 

[iwire]

Are you not supporting the cables with the other cable with the tie?

No. ................................

 

[George Stolz]

No. You drive a staple into the wood with nothing under it, perpendicular to what you would normally if there were a cable under it. Then you slide a zip tie under the staple, wrap your cables, and move on along.

 

[infinity]

No. You drive a staple into the wood with nothing under it, perpendicular to what you would normally if there were a cable under it. Then you slide a zip tie under the staple, wrap your cables, and move on along.

That's what I had envisioned when you first mentioned it.

 

[stevenje]

A staple and a zip tie take up less space in tool bags and do a better job. I avoid Stak-Its like the plague.

What a great idea! Thanks George.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I got ya. I thought you stapled one wire and then zipped tied them together.

 

[jetlag]

thanks George

thanks George

No. You drive a staple into the wood with nothing under it, perpendicular to what you would normally if there were a cable under it. Then you slide a zip tie under the staple, wrap your cables, and move on along.

How many cables will you put together this way, I was always afraid the zip ties would not be allowed if not listed for use that way . Is that just regular snap ties not a heavy duty made for that purpose.

 

[infinity]

How many cables will you put together this way, I was always afraid the zip ties would not be allowed if not listed for use that way . Is that just regular snap ties not a heavy duty made for that purpose.

Are any cable ties listed for specific cables? 334.30 says that a cable tie is permitted for securing and support of NM cable.

334.30 Securing and Supporting.
Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be supported and secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable, at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (4? ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge.
Sections of cable protected from physical damage by raceway shall not be required to be secured within the raceway.

 

[jetlag]

Thanks infinity

Thanks infinity

What do you mean by a stand off bracket? Are you referencing a 3M Stack-it?

Isnt 3m Stack-it a brand name? Others on here call it a stand off bracket also and that seems better to me .

 

[George Stolz]

How many cables will you put together this way...

See 310.15(B)(2).

...I was always afraid the zip ties would not be allowed if not listed for use that way. Is that just regular snap ties not a heavy duty made for that purpose.

I have never looked at a listing for cable ties, but I did this morning, just for fun.

CONDUIT AND FITTINGS (DWFV)
CONDUIT AND CABLE HARDWARE (DWMU)
GENERAL
This category covers cable ties, conduit straps, staples, and similar types
of hardware for installation in wiring systems in accordance with ANSI/
NFPA 70, ??National Electrical Code?? (NEC).
The mechanical strength of these products is investigated with consideration
given to the intended installation. Metallic devices are also investigated
for resistance to corrosion, and nonmetallic devices may be for flammability
and exposure to elevated or cold temperatures.

Nothing there says anything about how many cables can be under a zip tie, or how strong it has to be.

POSITIONING DEVICES (ZODZ)
GENERAL
This category covers cable ties, cable tie mounts, and similar types of
related hardware for field installation in accordance with NFPA 70,
??National Electrical Code.?? The investigation of these products includes
consideration of the rated mechanical strength, maximum operating temperature,
smoke and heat generation, corrosion resistance and weatherability
characteristics as appropriate for the product.
MARKINGS
The product or the smallest unit package in which the product is shipped
is marked with the product?s maximum load and thermal ratings along with
the company name and catalog designation.
Products covered under this category have not been evaluated for outdoor
use unless marked ??For Use Outdoors?? or similar wording, in which case
they have been found acceptable for both indoor and outdoor use.
Containers for those devices which have been investigated to determine
their suitability for use in air handling areas are marked either ??Suitable for
use in air handling spaces in accordance with Sec 300.22(C) and (D) of the
National Electrical Code?? or ??Suitable for use in air handling spaces in
accordance with Sec 300.22(B), (C) and (D) of the National Electrical Code,??
as appropriate.

Nothing there, either.

I would let the inspector do the work to prove that the installation was not code compliant, IMO. The method I described is superior to Stack-Its, IMO.

 

[jetlag]

Thanks infinity

Thanks infinity

Are any cable ties listed for specific cables? 334.30 says that a cable tie is permitted for securing and support of NM cable.

I have read that before but it never dawned on me that was just common snap ties . I was afraid they would later get brittle and break. This will save me lots of work if this is accepted means of securing nm cable.