ARC Flash protection level for neon tranformer work?
- Thread starter TommyB
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I don't think there is an arc flash hazard there...only a shock hazard. Gloves and tools rated for the voltage should be all you need.
dbuckley
Senior Member
- Location
- Canterbury, New Zealand
Agreed; theres plenty of arcing (and lethal shocking!) possible, but the energy available is quite low, 900W.
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
What does 60 MA mean?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
It should be milliamps. The current on the secondary side of the neon sign transformer is limited by the construction of the transformer.
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Understoood, and I was guessing mA. Usually there is a VA rating, but I understand this is tiny and agree there are no arc flash concerns.
Electric-Light
Senior Member
The only arcing issue with that (as well as instant start HF fluorescent) is that if a wire comes loose or connection becomes weak, it will continue to arc and melt wires or set something on fire.
To say that there is NO arc FLASH hazards associated with any type of transformer is ridiculous.While neon trasnformers are designed to have a high output voltage with a low output current to light the required diameter tube, they still have the potential to arc and flash. While it would be extremely uncommon for a neon transformer to flash, it is possible under the right circumstances.
More commonly, they're extreme fire hazards. I think that a certain level of arc flash prtotection should be used, not necessarily for the flash part in which there would be hot spewing metal flying but rather for the purpose of the transformer/ GTO wire arcing to the operator potentially causing the material worn to combust.
It also depends on the style of transformer as well. Smething like a Ventex transfomrer which has no secondary terminals exposed and a GFI built in has ALMOST no chance of flashing. On the other hand, something like Frances
P5KA2NG style transformer has a removable cover and requires you to expose the inner workings of the transformer to diagnose which has a MUCH higher chance of flashing.
I highly doubt anyone here would put there face next to a neon transformer that you have to service/diagnose and say "it won't flash". :grin:
More commonly, they're extreme fire hazards. I think that a certain level of arc flash prtotection should be used, not necessarily for the flash part in which there would be hot spewing metal flying but rather for the purpose of the transformer/ GTO wire arcing to the operator potentially causing the material worn to combust.
It also depends on the style of transformer as well. Smething like a Ventex transfomrer which has no secondary terminals exposed and a GFI built in has ALMOST no chance of flashing. On the other hand, something like Frances
P5KA2NG style transformer has a removable cover and requires you to expose the inner workings of the transformer to diagnose which has a MUCH higher chance of flashing.
I highly doubt anyone here would put there face next to a neon transformer that you have to service/diagnose and say "it won't flash". :grin:
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
I thinkk you are confusing a flashover and an arc flash. With a tiny transformer like that you just won't have enough energy to sustain an arc, thus produce any signifigant Ei. not 1.2 cal/cm2 anyways, which is the only time you become concerned about it.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Given the size of the branch circuit feeding the transformer, I doubt that you could come up with any condition at the transformer that would create an arc with an incident energy that exceeds 1.2cal/cm?.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I think what everyone is trying to say is the secondary of the neon transformer will not produce any kind of an explosive flash that a high energy arc flash would, even if you were to short the secondarys it would cause nothing to happen, the arc is there but not the energy, we used to even make Jacobs ladders out of them.
Do you have a copy of the NFPA 70E???
ericsherman37
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon Coast
Is it not possible to just shut the thing off before working on it?
there should be a service switch.
ericsherman37
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon Coast
So shutting that off and locking it out and all that good stuff should eliminate the need for 15 KV gear, right?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The OP is asking about troubleshooting....about the only thing that 70E permits you to do with the circuit energized. To do the troubleshooting you will need PPE the hazard. In this case, there would only be a shock hazard and voltage protection PPE would be required, but not arc flash PPE.
Thats right:grin:
On some transformers yes, in most cases no.....
In some troubleshooting scenarios, the transformer is required to be left on.
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