Romex switch legs

[George Stolz]

Code requires circuit sizing at 3w/sq. ft for residential general purpose lighting and recep. loads

For a service calculation, yes.

Im glad someone else is getting in on this...

Can you show me the code that requires that circuits supplying lighting and receptacles be evenly distributed by square footage?

 

[480sparky]

You are way under the minimum number of circuits if you wire the way you say.......... .

Prove it .

 

[cowboyjwc]

You seem to be stuck on square footage.

If I am required to have 5 circuits in a house, I can legally put four of them on two duplexes, and the fifth circuit to cover all the other outlets. I am not required anywhere in the Code to spread those circuits out per the square footage of the dwelling.

I would have to agree. Just because someon does it different, doesn't mean it's wrong.

The City of Los Angeles used to, and still may, require two circuits per bedroom, never said how you had to break it up, you could run two circuits through all the bedrooms.

It was getting really bad here for awhile, because guys would want to run a circuit to every outlet (insert sarcastic tone here) and fill up a panel with splits, then when the pool contractor came out there was no more room to add anything.

When guys talk about making money on a job or cutting cost and time, I believe that running home runs in residential is the most time/material consuming part of the job.

 

[480sparky]

..........The City of Los Angeles used to, and still may, require two circuits per bedroom, never said how you had to break it up, you could run two circuits through all the bedrooms..........

The same would apply to the 2 SABCs. If I have 10 receps servicing the c'top, I can legally put one circuit on one receptacle, and the other circuit supply the other nine.

 

[jetlag]

You seem to be stuck on square footage.

If I am required to have 5 circuits in a house, I can legally put four of them on two duplexes, and the fifth circuit to cover all the other outlets. I am not required anywhere in the Code to spread those circuits out per the square footage of the dwelling.

People are using floor heaters now in the bed room at night and turning the central heat way down because of the economy . I will be sleeping sound while you get woke up from call backs on your work with breakers tripping everywhere, tell them a huge bed room cant have any more heat than a tiny one because you allowed for light and tv only :roll:

 

[jetlag]

For a service calculation, yes.


Can you show me the code that requires that circuits supplying lighting and receptacles be evenly distributed by square footage?

ITs not just for service calculations when you multiply the sq ft of house by 3 va per sg ft the number you get is divided by 1800 for 15a or 2400 for 20a and that determines the minimum number of general purpose light and receptacle circuits . see example d1a in back of 2008 code .

 

[480sparky]

ITs not just for service calculations when you multiply the sq ft of house by 3 va per sg ft the number you get is divided by 1800 for 15a or 2400 for 20a and that determines the minimum number of general purpose light and receptacle circuits . see example d1a in back of 2008 code .

Now how about a Code reference that tells us those circuits must be spread out evenly based on square footage.

 

[480sparky]

People are using floor heaters now in the bed room at night and turning the central heat way down because of the economy . I will be sleeping sound while you get woke up from call backs on your work with breakers tripping everywhere, tell them a huge bed room cant have any more heat than a tiny one because you allowed for light and tv only :roll:

What's the wattage on those heaters? 1000? That's over 8 amps. Put a couple of those on any dwelling circuit and you're pushing it when you add all the other stuff they have on it.

It's not my fault they think there's an unlimited supply of power regardless of what they plug in. They only way you are going to totally prevent tripped breakers is to put every receptacle on a dedicated circuit.

 

[480sparky]

You are way under the minimum number of circuits if you wire the way you say. ..........

This is funny. You tell me five circuits aren't enough.

........ . see example d1a in back of 2008 code .

And D1(a) says only three are needed.

 

[George Stolz]

I think Dennis said it best here...

You guys can argue all day long as nobody is right or wrong. This is a "do it my way argument" . Personally I would hate wiring a house with feeds in the lights but to each his own. I also hate trouble shooting those homes.

I agree on all counts, and I think I am done.

 

[LEO2854]

The only way you are going to totally prevent tripped breakers is to put every receptacle on a dedicated circuit.

thats the best way to go ,Think of all the extra AFCI's wire you can bill for.:grin:

 

[readydave8]

I like to run power to overhead box and drop switchlegs to switch boxes. If it makes it harder to troubleshoot I've never noticed. Its harder to move a dresser or waterbed than to take down a light fixture.


Now that I'm gonna need neutral at switches I'll probably change.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Now how about a Code reference that tells us those circuits must be spread out evenly based on square footage.

210.11(B)?

220.18(B) may per branch circuit.

 

[480sparky]

210.11(B)?

220.18(B) may per branch circuit.

Now, what are the loads?

 

[jetlag]

Now how about a Code reference that tells us those circuits must be spread out evenly based on square footage.

Why would you not want to spread the circuits out evenly when all rooms need proper lighting and receptacles are basically spaced evenly through out the house . If you have a lot of can lights they need another circuit beyond the muinimum ones any way.

 

[jetlag]

What's the wattage on those heaters? 1000? That's over 8 amps. Put a couple of those on any dwelling circuit and you're pushing it when you add all the other stuff they have on it.

It's not my fault they think there's an unlimited supply of power regardless of what they plug in. They only way you are going to totally prevent tripped breakers is to put every receptacle on a dedicated circuit.

The 20 amp I run to 2 bedrooms will pull 2 of those heaters and 2 Tv s , the lights and fan are on a seperate 15 a . I doubt your 15a will pull 1 heater with the tvs , fans, bedroom , bath ,and hall lights on, plus whatever other area you have added since you save the area doesnt matter.

 

[jxofaltrds]

The 20 amp I run to 2 bedrooms will pull 2 of those heaters and 2 Tv s , the lights and fan are on a seperate 15 a . I doubt your 15a will pull 1 heater with the tvs , fans, bedroom , bath ,and hall lights on, plus whatever other area you have added since you save the area doesnt matter.

We're talking code (minimum) not best practices.

 

[480sparky]

Why would you not want to spread the circuits out evenly when all rooms need proper lighting and receptacles are basically spaced evenly through out the house . If you have a lot of can lights they need another circuit beyond the muinimum ones any way.

I never said I would. I said it was legal.

 

[jetlag]

This is funny. You tell me five circuits aren't enough.



And D1(a) says only three are needed.

3 15a is the absolute bare minimum for 1800 sq ft
5 15a is the absolute bare minimum for 3000 sq ft

If thats the way you want to wire go ahead , thats the way mobile homes are wired

I use:

3 15a and 2 20a on 1800 ft
5 15a and 3 or 4 20a on 3000 ft

 

[jetlag]

I like to run power to overhead box and drop switchlegs to switch boxes. If it makes it harder to troubleshoot I've never noticed. Its harder to move a dresser or waterbed than to take down a light fixture.


Now that I'm gonna need neutral at switches I'll probably change.

Good for you readydave, you can see by the posts how I was ridiculed for powering the ceiling box. You can continue if you run a 14/3 for leg instead of 14/2 . In the case of ceiling fan you can run 2 14/2 legs until places start to stock the 14/4 . If you fiqure the wire you will find there is a big waste with hitting the switch box with power even with the extra switch leg added in . If you power your switch box from the nearest receptacle (which I dont) the wire might be about the same