Bonding GEC at panel

[ishium 80439]

I have a question about 250.64E. This is the article that essentially states that if you have your GEC running in a metal conduit that the GEC needs to be "choked" at each end. I have had inspectors interpret this as to require require bare GEC connectors entering a panel (sans conduit) to be choked at the panel.

I have reread this section and it seems consistent to me since it refers to ferrous enclosures not be being continous to GEC. I had some intepret this as only refering to conduit, gutters etc.

Have I explained this well enough? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the gec is in conduit then the conduit must be bonded at both ends- the panel and the electrode.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

See if this helps

 

[infinity]

This is one of those code sections that's poorly written. Some will say that the GEC must be connected directly to the conduit. Others will say that they must be connected somehow. If the conduit is connected to the metal enclosure and the enclosure is bonded to the neutral then IMO they're already connected so nothing further is required. IMO the bonding bushing in the disconnect is not required in Dennis' graphic.

 

[ishium 80439]

My question actually has to do with a situation where there is no conduit involved. If you have a bare GEC leaving your panel and running free to a ground rod, do you need a connector (or some fitting) to "choke" that conductor to the panel?

I was looking at this situation with someone today. There was a GEC passing through a hole in the bottom of the panel with no connector. It was my feeling that the conductor needed to have a connector to connect it to the panel and it was his opinion that there was no code violation present.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You do not need anything if there is no conduit involved unless you need to protect the copper from damage.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

is not required in Dennis' graphic.

I hope Mike doesn't read that. You gave me too much credit. :grin:

 

[ishium 80439]

Man, that's two today.

I like learning but I hate being wrong. Both of these questions I have posted here today are perfect examples on how we should always question the "tribal wisdom" passed on by people who mean well but don't necessarily have all of the facts. I was interpreting these things incorrectly for years because of the way they were described/ explained to me in the past. Even after looking at the articles I was able to justify my opinions but upon looking at them again I guess I can see how I was twisting what was written to satisfy my predisposition.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[infinity]

My question actually has to do with a situation where there is no conduit involved. If you have a bare GEC leaving your panel and running free to a ground rod, do you need a connector (or some fitting) to "choke" that conductor to the panel?

I was looking at this situation with someone today. There was a GEC passing through a hole in the bottom of the panel with no connector. It was my feeling that the conductor needed to have a connector to connect it to the panel and it was his opinion that there was no code violation present.

You can go right through the small KO. Or you can use one of these if you want to spend 5 bucks:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

For smaller GECs, there is a hole in manufactured enclosures that is designed to have the KO removed and the GEC enter the enclosure without a connector. This hole is generally 1/4 inch in diameter and located towards the back of the enclosure.

 

[bphgravity]

I think it needs to be clarified that Section 250.64(E) is intended to PREVENT an inductive "choke" on the conductor. It doesn't create a choke and shouldn't be identified or called a choke.

Based on the description in the OP, I don't think additional bonding is necesssay as no choke effect is likely to occur.

 

[jimport]

For smaller GECs, there is a hole in manufactured enclosures that is designed to have the KO removed and the GEC enter the enclosure without a connector. This hole is generally 1/4 inch in diameter and located towards the back of the enclosure.

I know that the subject of the use of this hole has come up in the past, but is there any documentation as to this being allowed? I have always done it this way using the 1/4" hole, but seem to remember something to the contrary. I think quite a while ago there was several pages about the use or need for the Kenny clamp, perhaps at ET.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I know that the subject of the use of this hole has come up in the past, but is there any documentation as to this being allowed?

As I recall one manufacturer actual labeled it as a gec hole-- Either way I have seen this done all over the state of NC and have never heard of a problem doing it this way. I will continue to do so.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

As I recall one manufacturer actual labeled it as a gec hole-- Either way I have seen this done all over the state of NC and have never heard of a problem doing it this way. I will continue to do so.

SquareD has documentation on their website. I do not know about other manufacturers.

Go to SQD's site and type in GEC or grounding electrode conductor in the search box.

 

[lakee911]

I really like that little connector...looks sexy. What to do with the wire though after it leaves the box? To make it not look sloppy, that I don't know...

My preference is to use the 1/2 KO in the bottom of the meter enclosure and run the GEC in a 1/2 PVC conduit. To me, it just looks a lot cleaner. Because its PVC no special fittings or bonding bushings or anything like that is required.

 

[eprice]

I agree that a GEC passing through hole in the bottom of the enclosure without a conduit does not need anything to bond it where it passes through.

Let me point out that if you think it does require something there where it passes through, then you would also need to bond it as it passes through into a PVC conduit. PVC is non ferrous, and thus does not change the fact that the GEC is passing through a hole in the bottom of the metal enclosure.