SE and Feeder cable share same NM connector

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smallfish

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Location
Detroit
Is it allowed for a Service Entrance cable and a feeder cable to share the same NM cable connector located in a fused service disconnecting means?

The SE cable is seperately metered and enters the single family dwelling and passes through the same NM cable connector in the service disconnecting means as does the feeder cable that exits it on its way outdoors to a disconnect for the ac unit.

Thanks
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
If the AC disconnect is fused, then the service entrance conductors can be taped to feed another disconnect that doesn't enter a structure, grouping of disconnects would not be required, but this tap must be done properly, and most lugs would not be rated for more then one conductor, and if the lug even does, most likely the conductors would have to be the same size.

To understand this look at the requirements for a service disconnect:

230.70 General.
Means shall be provided to disconnect all conductors in a building or other structure from the service-entrance conductors.
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No where does these conductors enter a building, so the only requirement is for the disconnect and fault protection of the AC unit required in 440.11 and 440.12 for protection. there is no requirement in 440 for the grouping of disconnects.

OK guys hammer away:D
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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Wayne what are you talking about :grin:. The question is whether a se cable and an nm came be in the same connector.:)
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Boy did I read the OP wrong, I was thinking of an AC disconnect tapped from the top side of the service disconnect, wasn't even thinking about the cable clamps.:roll:

the cable clamps would depend upon the manufactures listing, but the NM outside would be a violation of 334.12(B)(4)
 
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suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Isn't there one more possible issue? He said Service and Feeder (assuming he really did mean Service per NEC 230). You can't share Service conductors and feeders in the same raceway or cable. But, can they share the same knockout?

As others pointed out, your clamp probably isn't listed to take two fat cables anyway.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Sharing the clamp has issues but I don't see it as sharing the same raceway. A clamp is not a raceway but I see your point.
 
J

jetlag

Senior Member
Location
Eatonton, Georgia
Dennis Alwon said:
I am certain it is not to code but I would not lose sleep over it either.
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I hate to say it because someone will tell me to find the code and prove it but I know there is a code about you cannot run other conductors in a conduit with the service entrance conductors , I cant remember if it said anything about a clamp but an se clamp is not shaped for an extra cable to be added. I have seen where people drilled a hole in a 2" pvc 90 where the service conductors entered and slide in an nm up to the panel to keep from having to fish a cable up thru the wall to panel . :roll:
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Dennis Alwon said:
Sharing the clamp has issues but I don't see it as sharing the same raceway. A clamp is not a raceway but I see your point.
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I know we must go by the word of the code, but I think the intent of this code was to not allow unprotected conductors in the same raceway as unprotected service conductors to prevent in the event of a fault to the service conductors could expose the feeders to the current of the service conductors if they fuse together, which could cause high current on the grounding conductors of the feeders causing them, if ran in the structure to cause a fire. remember the feeder has a grounding conductor that if hit by a service ungrounded conductor would heat up like a element, and I don't see where this couldn't happen just because it's a fitting. I would say its more likely at a clamp type fitting.
 
J

jetlag

Senior Member
Location
Eatonton, Georgia
hurk27 said:
I know we must go by the word of the code, but I think the intent of this code was to not allow unprotected conductors in the same raceway as unprotected service conductors to prevent in the event of a fault to the service conductors could expose the feeders to the current of the service conductors if they fuse together, which could cause high current on the grounding conductors of the feeders causing them, if ran in the structure to cause a fire. remember the feeder has a grounding conductor that if hit by a service ungrounded conductor would heat up like a element, and I don't see where this couldn't happen just because it's a fitting. I would say its more likely at a clamp type fitting.
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Did you see the code about the raceway, it might have said clamp also .
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
hurk27 said:
I know we must go by the word of the code, but I think the intent of this code was to not allow unprotected conductors in the same raceway as unprotected service conductors.
Click to expand...

We have unprotected service cables in the same panel with protected branch circuits and feeders. They cross, mix, whatever and it is not a code violation.
 
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