unused panels as junction boxes

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iwire

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
Pierre C Belarge said:
The way I read this, is an existing service enclosure is being reused as a splice box.
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The way I read it, the cabinet was never removed, it was always there and has simply had the OCPDs removed.

As is often the case you and I read the same rules as opposite as any two people can. :grin:

In my personal opinion you have a predisposition to read the rules as restrictive as possible while I have a predisposition to read the rules as permissive as possible.

I suspect the correct way would be somewhere in between. :)
 
J

juptonstone

Member
Location
Lady Lake, FL
panel cover???

panel cover???

I regularly use old. existing panels as JB's. I'm doing so this week with the building dept's blessing. No cover change required. Just put blank's in the spaces where the breakers were, so no one can reach in and electrocute themselves.
 
mxslick

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
LarryFine said:
Not only do I do it, I use as many MWBC's for the extension as I can.
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Bad Larry, bad, bad Larry!! No soup for you!!

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iwire said:
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As is often the case you and I read the same rules as opposite as any two people can. :grin:

In my personal opinion you have a predisposition to read the rules as restrictive as possible while I have a predisposition to read the rules as permissive as possible.

I suspect the correct way would be somewhere in between. :)
Click to expand...

LOL this reminded me of our debate on 230.70, with your opinion reversed. :D
 
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LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
iwire said:
In my personal opinion you have a predisposition to read the rules as restrictive as possible while I have a predisposition to read the rules as permissive as possible. :)
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I prefer to read them as inexpensively as possible.
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
iwire said:
It is not being 'reused' it is being 'used'.

Or would that code require I replace K&T wiring when I do a panel swap and disconnect the K&T from the panel for a few minutes? :)
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I love this idea. Can you help push this through for the next code cycle?
How about just "all K&T be replaced" and we get a 25% premium on pricing too.:grin:
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
jaylectricity said:
Sure, but it's not like there's a live busbar inside.



Sheet metal screws? Shouldn't you use machine screws?
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I found some nifty little 8/32 self drilling and self taping screws at Manerds that work great for this and a few other things.:D

I have never been called on it here, I can't imagine an inspector requiring you to rip out all the existing conductors to relocate them to the new panel, or replace the old panel to just install two JB's
( two JB's because if you have cables or pipes coming into both the top and bottom then you most likely wont reach the JB with one set or the other)
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
TOOL_5150 said:
Why? I use sheet metal screws in sheet metal. Im not using the hinged cover for grounding purposes.
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Actually you are...the cover has to be bonded to the cabinet some how.

Just as long as the now junction box is not accessible without tools, its safe and code complaint.

~Matt
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What rule says you have a cover that requires the use of tools to open?
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
iwire said:
The way I read it, the cabinet was never removed, it was always there and has simply had the OCPDs removed. And was reused as a junction box (wording in red added by Pierre :cool:)

As is often the case you and I read the same rules as opposite as any two people can. :grin:

In my personal opinion you have a predisposition to read the rules as restrictive as possible while I have a predisposition to read the rules as permissive as possible.

I suspect the correct way would be somewhere in between. :)
Click to expand...

A very good compromise!!! I shall meet you on the dwelling field, don't forget your second...of course our seconds will perform the actual dwelling...that leaves us to keep up the good fight.:)

I think that is very well stated, and I got a good chuckle from it. ;):D

It may be somewhat true, and I believe it comes from my experience as an inspector.



Your comment about a service change, is not the same as taking a panel that is designed and used as a panel and then "gutting the panel and reusing it as a junction box".

The K&T in your example is still being used as a wiring method.


P.S.
I have no issue with the existing panel enclosure being reused as a junction box.
I have even stood behind ECs when challenged by building departments for requiring them to remove K&T wiring by using the NEC as a reference.
Although there is no stopping insurance companies from requiring the property owner from removing these kind of methods.


Also, the comment I made about the NYS code section is more from a legal standpoint. I have seen how the attorneys can use this kind of code language in their favor when necessary.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
LarryFine said:
That looks like a sheet-metal-building screw.
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It is a Tek screw with rubber washer and yes they are used for metal building construction but CH also used them to install the cover on the 3R panel in the picture.

I personally opened the box when it arrived so I know that is how it shipped.
 
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