Health care facility

[CONDUIT]

I was interested if any body would consider a facility where the only thing they do is draw blood as being required to be wired as patient care areas. The reason I ask is I had a Student that said they had wired such a facility using regular m.c. Inspector showed up and said that the receptacles had to be changed to hospital grade. He said after that the fire department told him that the wire had to be listed for health care. He said he bought some green spray paint sprayed it green then fire marshall okayed it. He said in his opinon it is not considered in article 517 and should not have been required in the first place. After looking through 517 I think it is kind of in a gray area. I know people can guess all day long. If you reply please tell me which code article you think would or would not make it required. Also thought I would let you know this is a stand alone facility. It is not in a hospital. Thanks

 

[pete m.]

If all this facility does is draw blood then why would you need receptacles in the area that they perform this?

Pete

 

[charlie b]

I don't have the time to do the research right now, but I recall a very active debate on this same subject, perhaps a year or more ago. I was (and remain) of the opinion that drawing blood does not put you into 517. Others were very much of the opposite opinion.

 

[CONDUIT]

Good question. I will ask him next week.

 

[ericsherman37]

If you can get blood drawn in a high school gym, then you can get blood drawn anywhere in my opinion.

Patient Care Area. Any portion of a health care facility
wherein patients are intended to be examined or treated.
Areas of a health care facility in which patient care is administered
are classified as general care areas or critical
care areas. The governing body of the facility designates
these areas in accordance with the type of patient care anticipated
and with the following definitions of the area classification.

So if it is applicable:

General Care Areas. Patient bedrooms, examining rooms,
treatment rooms, clinics, and similar areas in which it is intended
that the patient will come in contact with ordinary
appliances such as a nurse call system, electric beds, examining
lamps, telephones, and entertainment devices.

I guess it's a treatment room, but maybe the key is, is it intended that the patient will come in contact with electrical appliances? My guess is no. Patient walks in, sits down, stares at the wall for a second while the nurse impales them, then gets up and walks out. Your AHJ, however, may not agree.

 

[augie47]

I was interested if any body would consider a facility where the only thing they do is draw blood as being required to be wired as patient care areas. The reason I ask is I had a Student that said they had wired such a facility using regular m.c. Inspector showed up and said that the receptacles had to be changed to hospital grade.

That might be his first clue as to the inspector's knowledge of Art 517.
HG recpetacles are required in Patient Bed Locations (see that definition)

He said after that the fire department told him that the wire had to be listed for health care. He said he bought some green spray paint sprayed it green then fire marshall okayed it.

Does not speak highly of him, does it ? If he was caught peforming that stunt here he would probably loose his license.

He said in his opinon it is not considered in article 517 and should not have been required in the first place. After looking through 517 I think it is kind of in a gray area. I know people can guess all day long. If you reply please tell me which code article you think would or would not make it required. Also thought I would let you know this is a stand alone facility. It is not in a hospital. Thanks

Locally, the decision would likely come down to how it was defined on the drawings/prints if there are any.
As stated, blood is often drawn in many areas. If the area was designated as a "clinic" or any of the areas as defined in Patient Care Areas then 517 would apply.
Without such designation, I would agree grey area.

 

[steve66]

If you can get blood drawn in a high school gym, then you can get blood drawn anywhere in my opinion.

I think the gym comparison has been brought up many times before also.

The way I see it, the principle use of a gym is not to be a place to draw blood. (Unless dodge ball is played on a regular basis :grin: ). Its an incidental use. But drawing blood would be the principle use of a room intended just for that.

So they are two different animals. I don't see how the gym has any relavance to the question at hand. It doesn't provide any support to either agrument either way.

But I will give you that the "contact with electtrical appliances" is questionable.

Personally, I think its a gray area. If I were forced to call it, I would call it a patient care area. But I wouldn't fault someone else if they called it non-patient care.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I don't have the time to do the research right now, but I recall a very active debate on this same subject, perhaps a year or more ago. I was (and remain) of the opinion that drawing blood does not put you into 517. Others were very much of the opposite opinion.

Charlie
That discussion may have been when we were discussing the pharmacies building small rooms, where they drew blood and gave flu shots, etc....

 

[charlie b]

It turns out that there were at least two discussions on the topic. Here is one from 2007 and another from 2008.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=91631&highlight=Phlebotomist
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=97192&highlight=Phlebotomist

 

[iwire]

If you can get blood drawn in a high school gym, then you can get blood drawn anywhere in my opinion.

Of course you can, but that room was not built with that in mind.

A doctor can perform a tracheotomy in a restaurant without the restaurant being wired for that use.

But when you are building facility for taking blood IMO the rules of 517 apply.

It will be up to the AHJ.