Utiilization equipment in ceiling

[sevlander]

Is a condensation pump with cord & plug considered "utilization equipment"? The definition in 100 is pretty vague. If so I believe it should be allowed in a in a drop ceiling per 440.7(6,7&8). I have read all many of the archived forum responses and found no one agreeing with this. Someone please explain why the pump would not be allowed based on the article#s I quoted. Thanks

 

[jusme123]

400.8 (5) prohibits cords above drop ceilings 400.8(2) may also apply

 

[sevlander]

But...

But...

Yes, BUT 400.8 says "unless specifically permitted in 400.7". In 400.7 (6,7 &8) seem to allow it for utilization equipment, vibration and appliances. It would seem that one or more of them apply to a cond. pump and therefore be allowed. If I was the AHJ , I would read 400.7 and allow it. I need someone to dispute that. Thanks

 

[fishin' electrician]

Yes, BUT 400.8 says "unless specifically permitted in 400.7". In 400.7 (6,7 &8) seem to allow it for utilization equipment, vibration and appliances. It would seem that one or more of them apply to a cond. pump and therefore be allowed. If I was the AHJ , I would read 400.7 and allow it. I need someone to dispute that. Thanks

Trouble is there's nothing in 400.7 that specifically permits cords above a ceiling.

 

[billsnuff]

what is the AHJs interpretation of 'frequent'?

Is there no other wiring method to prevent transmission of vibration and is the pump attach to the structure?

Is the pump part of a larger appliance?

Did the manufacturer supply the cord?

I'm thinking violation.......

 

[sevlander]

cord is factory installed (therefore no other means of flex wiring without UL loss).

pump is mounted to AHU.

removal for maint/cleaning may be required on occaisions

 

[jusme123]

...............

 

[jusme123]

I agree with 'fishin' in comment #4, the cord in the ceiling is still a problem

 

[sevlander]

The HVAC contractor mounted the pump on his strut hangers for the AHU. The pump was specified for the AHU on drawings by mech. engineer.

 

[elohr46]

cord is factory installed (therefore no other means of flex wiring without UL loss).

pump is mounted to AHU.

removal for maint/cleaning may be required on occaisions

I have wired many of those pumps over the years, they come hard wired or with cord/plug. Above ceilings we used the hard wired model.

 

[sevlander]

Thanks everyone for all your imputs. It appears the simple answer is to get a hardwired model pump.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Thanks everyone for all your imputs. It appears the simple answer is to get a hardwired model pump.

I have seen only 240v hardwired pumps. All the 120v pumps are cord and plug. Little giant makes a hardwired one. If you find a 120V hardwire please let me know.

I started writing a proposal for the 2014 nec that would have an exception for condensate pumps but I could not substantiate it since they do make a hardwired version.

 

[jusme123]

....other than the obvious, what differences are there between the 'hard wired' and 'cord and plug' motors?

 

[LEO2854]

....other than the obvious, what differences are there between the 'hard wired' and 'cord and plug' motors?

There is no difference and we install a recptacle for the pump all the time for unit above the ceiling and never get flagged.:roll:

 

[jusme123]

There is no difference and we install a recptacle for the pump all the time for unit above the ceiling and never get flagged.:roll:

its a violation, do you agree with that, I know its not a huge deal, but....?

 

[LEO2854]

its a violation, do you agree with that, I know its not a huge deal, but....?

No its not a big deal but the code can be confusing:-?
if you look at 400.7(A)(6) and 400.8 the first sentance.:roll:

 

[LarryFine]

....other than the obvious, what differences are there between the 'hard wired' and 'cord and plug' motors?

The cord is the problem, which isn't permitted above the ceiling, nor as permanent wiring.

 

[DavidA]

Oops, just installed a body lift in a crematorium above the T bar. The motor for the lift arrived with plug and cord and I didn't give a second thought to putting a receptacle next to it. I obviously need to spend more time in the 'good book'.

 

[jusme123]

Oops, just installed a body lift in a crematorium above the T bar. The motor for the lift arrived with plug and cord and I didn't give a second thought to putting a receptacle next to it. I obviously need to spend more time in the 'good book'.

Dont sweat it, I believe all of us have, lets say, overlooked a few things in our days

 

[jusme123]

The cord is the problem, which isn't permitted above the ceiling, nor as permanent wiring.

see comment #2