T8 lamp run by a T12 magnetic ballast

[Ravenvalor]

I carry three "Workhorse 5" ballasts on my truck. I like them for display lighting fixtures like anthony or such. The only drawback to the Workhorse ballast is that they are typically single voltage.

Looks like decent prices too.

 

[LEO2854]

I looked at the website, I will give them a call tomorrow. They will probably give me the number to the manufacturer tech support and hopefully I will learn something.

Thank You,

yes its a great site i did not know about that type of ballast till this thread:grin:

 

[LarryFine]

Why not go directly to the source?

 

[steve66]

Hey thanks,

If I can find a f34t12 magnetic rapid start ballast do you think that I can effectively operate a 4' t8 lamp on it?

I appreciate the time you have spent explaining this to me.

J.

Use a ballast that says its compatible with T8's. Just getting the wattage close isn't any gurantee.

Just for example (and I'm just picking random numbers here), say a T12 lamp is made to run at 1000 volts and 40 milliamps. That's 40 watts. A T8 lamp might be completely different. It might be made to run off 1500 volts and 20 milliamps. Just something to consider.

And again, there might be differences in starting. On top of that, some fixtures and ballasts are wired for series operation of 2 lamps, some are wire for parallel operation.

Mix those two up and you will proably get smoke.

 

[HotConductor]

Most supply houses are now carrying Work Horse ballasts. If not they are readily available on-line.

VERY IMPORTANT:

You need the product selection brochure because the WH ballasts DO NOT have the wiring diagrams on them.

 

[LarryFine]

You need the product selection brochure because the WH ballasts DO NOT have the wiring diagrams on them.

Here ya go: Fulham fluorescent catalog

Added: Check the pages near the back.

 

[LEO2854]

Here ya go: Fulham fluorescent catalog

Added: Check the pages near the back.

try this one...
http://www.prolighting.com/woba.htm...ts&?mt=Exact&gclid=CLyp9Oi_zqQCFdR65QodzRYIjA

 

[Ravenvalor]

Use a ballast that says its compatible with T8's. Just getting the wattage close isn't any gurantee.

Just for example (and I'm just picking random numbers here), say a T12 lamp is made to run at 1000 volts and 40 milliamps. That's 40 watts. A T8 lamp might be completely different. It might be made to run off 1500 volts and 20 milliamps. Just something to consider.

And again, there might be differences in starting. On top of that, some fixtures and ballasts are wired for series operation of 2 lamps, some are wire for parallel operation.

Mix those two up and you will proably get smoke.

Those are the kind of specs that I am thinking about obtaining. If I can obtain all of the specs of every lamp and ballast on the market then I might be able to mix t8 lamps with t12 magnetic ballasts. My goal is to give my customers a t8 lamp that will operate on a magnetic ballast once the t12 ballasts are no longer available.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Those are the kind of specs that I am thinking about obtaining. If I can obtain all of the specs of every lamp and ballast on the market then I might be able to mix t8 lamps with t12 magnetic ballasts. My goal is to give my customers a t8 lamp that will operate on a magnetic ballast once the t12 ballasts are no longer available.

Can I ask why?

There will be a time when the t-12s are phased out also.
I know here in CA it would be against code or maybe the Law ( I don't see who will police it) to replace a t-8 with a t-12.

 

[Ravenvalor]

Results of Research

Results of Research

After researching the topic I have concluded that a f32t8 835, 841, or 850 lamp will operate well on a 34 watt t12 magnetic ballast. Therefore I can continue to install the 34 watt t12 magnetic ballasts. I like them because they are cheap and reliable. Thank you for all of your help.

 

[hillbilly1]

After researching the topic I have concluded that a f32t8 835, 841, or 850 lamp will operate well on a 34 watt t12 magnetic ballast. Therefore I can continue to install the 34 watt t12 magnetic ballasts. I like them because they are cheap and reliable. Thank you for all of your help.

There is a boatload of 40 watt T12 magnetic ballasts out there, and there is where the problem is.

 

[Ravenvalor]

There is a boatload of 40 watt T12 magnetic ballasts out there, and there is where the problem is.

I am wondering if these tired old worn out 40 watt T12 magnetic ballasts that are still out there still pushing 40 watts of power. If they are pushing signifigantly less power, then the T8-800 series lamps should still work well on them.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Is the ballast still rated for the purpose. What about the energy star rating. or some states energy code.

 

[mxslick]

After following this thread I cannot believe some of the things I have read.

After researching the topic I have concluded that a f32t8 835, 841, or 850 lamp will operate well on a 34 watt t12 magnetic ballast. Therefore I can continue to install the 34 watt t12 magnetic ballasts. I like them because they are cheap and reliable. Thank you for all of your help.

Plain and simple, you are putting your customers at risk by using lamps with a ballast that is not rated for that lamp. The probability of violent failure (read: fire) by playing mix and match field engineer is too great. I hope your liability policy is up to date.

Are you qualified as an engineer to back up your "research"? I know I am not and would not put my customers at risk without the blessing of the ballast AND lamp manufacturers.

Ballasts DO NOT cost that much money, and installing to proper ballast is the ONLY RIGHT and ETHICAL thing to do. In addition to ensuring maximum safety, you will ensure maximum lamp life and best possible energy savings.

Fluorescent lamps have a negative resistance characteristic, ie the resistance drops as the lamp is lit and without the ballast the resistance would keep dropping and the current would keep rising until something burns up.

Since each TYPE of lamp even in the same wattage has different characteristics, you MUST match the ballast to the lamp.

To do anything otherwise is unprofessional and reckless.

And if I were the AHJ or fire marshal in your area and I found out that your "research" caused a fire I promise I would have your license pulled.

 

[HotConductor]

If you look at the ballast selection guide for Work Horse ballasts you will see that you can use a WH2,3 or 4 for a t8 32 watt lamp. Now the WH2 would be the most energy efficient and offer the most longevity for lamp life but the higher output ballasts will safely operate the lamp.

I'm not advocating this practice for all applications. For example, if I was going to offer a client a T8 retrofit from T12's then I would use a Universal electronic ballast with a 28 watt lamp for maximum efficiency.

I think it's going a little too far to say the Op is being reckless or unsafe.

 

[LarryFine]

I think it's going a little too far to say the Op is being reckless or unsafe.

Maybe, but I would never intentionally mis-match lamps and ballasts.

If you're retro-fitting, do it right, and charge for the right equipment.

 

[mxslick]

HotConductor, I understand what you're saying but I am not talking about using the workhorse ballasts, which ARE rated for multiple lamp types.

I am referring to the idea of "Therefore I can continue to install the 34 watt t12 magnetic ballasts. I like them because they are cheap and reliable."

If those ballasts are NOT rated for use with t8 lamps, then I stand by my position that it is reckless and/or unsafe.

And need I remind anyone that deliberately installing a non-rated lamp/ballast combination would not only void the listing of the ballast but would be a Code violation. (ref. 1999 NEC, the one I have on hand,)

Art. 110.3(b) "Installation and Use" "Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling."

So if the ballast labeling does not indicate that a T8 lamp is suitable a red tag would be given (if inspected) and if anything should go wrong this violation sets up a very strong position of liability.

Maybe, but I would never intentionally mis-match lamps and ballasts.

If you're retro-fitting, do it right, and charge for the right equipment.

Thank you Larry. Your post went up as I was composing mine, and I agree with you on everything except the maybe.

 

[HotConductor]

HotConductor, I understand what you're saying but I am not talking about using the workhorse ballasts, which ARE rated for multiple lamp types.

I am referring to the idea of "Therefore I can continue to install the 34 watt t12 magnetic ballasts. I like them because they are cheap and reliable."

If those ballasts are NOT rated for use with t8 lamps, then I stand by my position that it is reckless and/or unsafe.

And need I remind anyone that deliberately installing a non-rated lamp/ballast combination would not only void the listing of the ballast but would be a Code violation. (ref. 1999 NEC, the one I have on hand,)

Art. 110.3(b) "Installation and Use" "Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling."

So if the ballast labeling does not indicate that a T8 lamp is suitable a red tag would be given (if inspected) and if anything should go wrong this violation sets up a very strong position of liability.



Thank you Larry. Your post went up as I was composing mine, and I agree with you on everything except the maybe.

Agreed Slick...I just think "reckless" is a little insulting and condescending in this case.

 

[iwire]

Maybe, but I would never intentionally mis-match lamps and ballasts.

If you're retro-fitting, do it right, and charge for the right equipment.

Ditto that.

 

[mxslick]

Agreed Slick...I just think "reckless" is a little insulting and condescending in this case.

Perhaps, but when I see something that could endanger people's lives and/or property, I call it the way I see it.

I'd rather hurt someone's ego than condone a practice that could cost someone their life.

Perhaps my old signature line should be applied here:

"Stupid should be painful."