Federal Pacific:

[curt swartz]

Just a note, FPE is Federal Pioneer Equipment. Federal Pacific is different.

Federal Pacific was/is know as FPE (Federal Pacific Electric).

 

[zog]

Federal Pacific was/is know as FPE (Federal Pacific Electric).

It is a little more complex than that, Federal Pacific went out of business in the late 1980's (However there is a federal pacific transformer company, unrelated). Federal pioneer is still in business making breakers and switchgear in Canada, they are owned by Schnieder, who also owns Square D.

Fedral Pacific and Federal Pioneer (Who is the only one I know of that ever put "FPE" on thier breakers) are different companies.

 

[brian john]

it is a little more complex than that, federal pacific went out of business in the late 1980's (however there is a federal pacific transformer company, unrelated). Federal pioneer is still in business making breakers and switchgear in canada, they are owned by schnieder, who also owns square d.

Fedral pacific and federal pioneer (who is the only one i know of that ever put "fpe" on thier breakers) are different companies.

yep...............

 

[curt swartz]

On the cover of the 1985 catalog in front me it has FPE (with the lightning bolt between the P&E) Federal Pacific. In the back the of the catalog the title of the page is Federal Pacific Electric Sales Offices. Under the title it says contact you local FPE Sales office listed below. I sold my remaining inventory of Stab-Lok breakers recently so can't look at them and don't remember how they were marked.

 

[zog]

You sold someone old stab lok breakers?

 

[curt swartz]

You sold someone old stab lok breakers?

Yep! There are several breaker shops near be that want them. They only pay a couple bucks a piece for single poles but thats better than sitting on my shelf for years. They typically get sold for about $30 if they test ok. I have had at least 4 shops tell me that Stab-Lok's seldom fail testing. No more fail than other manufactures.

 

[jxofaltrds]

So are you saying that this FPE should be replaced?

 

[mxslick]

Sure, along with this one:

:grin:

 

[renosteinke]

In this instance, it makes no difference that "FPE" has nothing to do with "Federal Pioneer," "Unique," or whomever.

Some have waxed on about the 'flawed design' of the Stab-Loc. These other makers reproduce the Stab-loc faithfully. Any criticism of the FPE design still applies.

Ditto for the 'performance' issues. UL tests are the same for all. (Please note that the US-sold "Unique" breakers are not UL listed, but ETL- certified as meeting the standard).

Likewise, the asserted testing fraud that was associated with FPE had nothing to do with the independent UL tests.

 

[electricguy61]

Sure, along with this one:

:grin:

Looks real familiar. At least the wall didn't catch fire.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I am not one to say that FPE panels and breakers are all that good, but I have not seen one link to actual studies performed by any other than those who are already biased. Inspect NY is a very biased site.


There are certain breakers that are having issues functioning properly, not all FPE breakers fall under this category.


I have seen so many failures in panels, breakers, receptacles, lighting, etc... that are not FPE, what is to be said about that issue.

HOW ABOUT WE HAVE SOME TYPE OF AUTHORITY THAT POLICES WHO IS ACTUALLY INSTALLING THE ELECTRICAL WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If people were really interested in making electrical installations safer, then there would be more control in the activities of installers, Licensing, testing, continuing education, proper inspector training are a few that come to mind.


BTW:
Think about this.
If those FPE breakers have been in installed since the 60's, 70's, that is 40-50 years......................... what maintenance has been performed? NONE most likely. Maybe a maintenance code should be recommended-adopted.

Hmmmm....... simple solution to a misunderstood industry.


Okay, so lets attack FPE, ignor the rest of the industry, and we will have beautiful sunsets forever...YEAH!!!

If I recall properly, in reading the papers, magazines and watching the news, most fires are electrically related?????????? JEEEEEEZ



Ahhhhh, I feel much better now

 

[jxofaltrds]

115.2 Maintenance.

Residential buildings, structures and the building equipment shall be maintained in a safe and sanitary condition and in accordance with the condition(s) established in current and any previous plan approvals and certificates of occupancy. Devices or safeguards which are required by this code shall be maintained in conformance with the code edition under which installed. The owner or the owner's designated agent shall be responsible for the maintenance.

Now try to enforce that.

 

[zog]

If those FPE breakers have been in installed since the 60's, 70's, that is 40-50 years......................... what maintenance has been performed? NONE most likely. Maybe a maintenance code should be recommended-adopted.

NFPA 70B is already there. NETA MTS is an ANSI standard. NFPA 70E Article 200 reference both.

 

[electricguy61]

As a former firefighter, that was also an electrical contractor, I took great interest in the causes of fires within homes I responded to.

And as a ful time contractor that used to be a firefighter, I still take great interest in panel failures. Are my findings scientific? No, just observations from over 30 years in the trade.

That being said, I've seen more home fires started in FPE panels, by far, then any other, usually related to thin, single pole breakers. They actually catch on fire at the point where the 2 fingers would attach to the buss.

I've also seen more catastrophic panel failures in Zinsco aluminum buss panels then any other, though usually the damage was confined to the panel itself.

And many of us realize that the easiest thing to blame a home fire on is "electrical causes", when this is simply not the case.

No one I love or care about would live in a home with either of those two panels. I've changed them out for free if need be.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

115.2 Maintenance.

Residential buildings, structures and the building equipment shall be maintained in a safe and sanitary condition and in accordance with the condition(s) established in current and any previous plan approvals and certificates of occupancy. Devices or safeguards which are required by this code shall be maintained in conformance with the code edition under which installed. The owner or the owner's designated agent shall be responsible for the maintenance.

Now try to enforce that.

We have a similar line in the building codes, but not the residential codes.
We are speaking of residential in this thread. I am going to stretch here, I would be generous in stating that maybe, maybe 5% of homes in this country have electrical maintenance provided.

NFPA 70B is already there. NETA MTS is an ANSI standard. NFPA 70E Article 200 reference both.

NFPA 70B and 70E are Standards and are not enforceable unless adopted by the jurisdiction. I am going to stretch again and state that maybe 1% of the jurisdictions in this country have adopted those standards.

And as a ful time contractor that used to be a firefighter, I still take great interest in panel failures. Are my findings scientific? No, just observations from over 30 years in the trade.

That being said, I've seen more home fires started in FPE panels, by far, then any other, usually related to thin, single pole breakers. They actually catch on fire at the point where the 2 fingers would attach to the buss.

I've also seen more catastrophic panel failures in Zinsco aluminum buss panels then any other, though usually the damage was confined to the panel itself.

And many of us realize that the easiest thing to blame a home fire on is "electrical causes", when this is simply not the case.

No one I love or care about would live in a home with either of those two panels. I've changed them out for free if need be.

Studies performed across the US do not come to same conclusion with your results.
Maybe...remember this is my opinion; there is some really bad installations in your area, which is exactly what my post was about.



Aluminum wiring is not the problem, electrical equipment is not the problem, codes are not the problem.

In general, the poor education and lack of quality installers in this country is going in the wrong direction.
I speak with a number of people from the northeast, and of course spend time on forums, etc... our industry needs a lot of help from the people in government. Without it, we are not going to see any positive results soon.

In 30 years I have seen the quality of installations moving in a downward spiral. A lot (not all) of the installers (yes, I am using a term that can apply to anyone - as opposed to stating electrician, which is a trained individual) just do not care anymore.......

In NYS, when a person cutting my hair has to go to an accredited training program, take a written and hands on test, and then is required to complete 10 hours of CEUs each year; and an individual in the electrical industry does not require any skills other than being able to breath, I say we have big problems.
EDITED- NYS has approximated 10,000,000 people living in the state, excluding NYC. do you think there is much work going on here???

***I think I may have woken up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

 

[zog]

NFPA 70B and 70E are Standards and are not enforceable unless adopted by the jurisdiction. I am going to stretch again and state that maybe 1% of the jurisdictions in this country have adopted those standards.

You do not have a choice to adopt 70E or not.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=68942

 

[mxslick]

I am not one to say that FPE panels and breakers are all that good, but I have not seen one link to actual studies performed by any other than those who are already biased. Inspect NY is a very biased site.


There are certain breakers that are having issues functioning properly, not all FPE breakers fall under this category.


I have seen so many failures in panels, breakers, receptacles, lighting, etc... that are not FPE, what is to be said about that issue.

HOW ABOUT WE HAVE SOME TYPE OF AUTHORITY THAT POLICES WHO IS ACTUALLY INSTALLING THE ELECTRICAL WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If people were really interested in making electrical installations safer, then there would be more control in the activities of installers, Licensing, testing, continuing education, proper inspector training are a few that come to mind.


BTW:
Think about this.
If those FPE breakers have been in installed since the 60's, 70's, that is 40-50 years......................... what maintenance has been performed? NONE most likely. Maybe a maintenance code should be recommended-adopted.

Hmmmm....... simple solution to a misunderstood industry.


Okay, so lets attack FPE, ignor the rest of the industry, and we will have beautiful sunsets forever...YEAH!!!

If I recall properly, in reading the papers, magazines and watching the news, most fires are electrically related?????????? JEEEEEEZ



Ahhhhh, I feel much better now

Pierre, In all my years both working with EC's and in my current trade, I have encountered literally hundreds, if not thousands, of breaker panels of all brands and styles.

I can state with confidence that in terms of catastrophic failures, the list from most to least in my experience goes like this:

• FPE
• Zinsco/Sylvania
• GE skinny breakers
• Murray/Siemens
• Cutler-Hammer (Mains)
• Westinghouse/Wadsworth
• Square D (only two out of many)

So you are right in that ALL brands do have some incidents of failure, but the big two of FPE and Zinsco have the worst track record of all the brands.

And that, IMHO, makes them inferior and in fact a latent hazard.

Oh, and lest we forget this gem from FPE: