Grounding the body

[karl riley]

Hi George, hi Pierre.

Well, there were a couple of helpful replies. Thanks.
New ideas are met by curiosity or derision or enthusiasm or nervous laughter.

Actually, electricians do get more contact with the earth's free electrons through contacting grounded conductors as they work.

The wire can be thin, since it is conducting a very small trickle current, if that. The body only takes what it needs.

The fellow from New Zealand knows that many children there routinely go around in bare feet, even in town and school. Some adults too. They are a hearty bunch, from my experience. And the wrist strap works, with its 1 megohm resistor.

I will re-read 250-54. Thanks.

I'm still not clear about going to an isolated ground stake. Certainly you don't want to be connected during a thunderstorm. If an electrician installed it, couldn't an inspector fault him for it? And a lawyer sue if the line were energized by a freak connection accident? The fault won't clear.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

How were the people connected to the earth in the studies? Here in the US if you connect to the grounding system you will be at a voltage that is above that of "remote earth" (earth outside the influence of a grounding electrode, commonly defined as 50' away from the electrode). This voltage is the voltage drop on the primary and secondary grounded conductors of the supply system. Would this voltage change the effect on the person?

 

[karl riley]

Don, based on the strong results of the studies conducted with either a short ground rod right outside the building or else plugged into the grounding jack on a wall receptacle, evidently it doesn't matter what the earth potential is. The body takes the electrons it needs, after first discharging the induced voltage from local wiring.

I measure about 11 voltsAC on my body when using the computer, 5.4V at my bed, 3.5V in my chair. After grounding this of course goes down to a few mV. After that, the body is at ground potential, whatever it is, so the body can then take what it needs.

The cortisol study is very impressive on that website (earthinginstitute.net).

 

[K8MHZ]

More snake oil.

Just a reason to part fools from their money.

Notice the links to the products? You can get a sheet with a ground plug for a mere $289.00. Or a car mat for $40. (They don't differentiate between a car chassis and the earth moving swiftly below for some reason. I guess the dollars don't care, why should they?)

Sorry to be such a party pooper, but I smell a scam....

 

[karl riley]

Marky,

It's good to be skeptical these days, but you have to use all your brain cells, not just the first layer. (Sorry, that just popped out of my head).

The prices on that website do seem high to me, as they are made for people who don't want to bother with the inexpensive ways to do it. The products are not mass produced at this time, and I bet they haven't covered their start-up costs yet. So give them some slack.

The inexpensive place to go is LessEMF.com where you can get a conductive sheet ("anti-static fabric") to put under your bedsheet for $15 for 3'x64", plus a 6' ground plug with an alligator clip to connect to the sheet for $6. So for $21 you are all set for a lifetime (remaining) of a different kind of sleep.

Or buy the wrist strap for $3.95 plus the plug and it will cost you $9.95 total. This is the set-up I used the first two nights, and which gave me such a difference in my sleep and body relaxation that I was convinced that this is a very major health breakthrough.

If you have an old sheet to spare you can really get cheap and stick on some aluminum tape for Heating/cooling use. Clamp an alligator clip to that. I actually use that on an old cushion to sit on while watching Tv and using the computer. Grounded, of course.

So hold off on your suspicions long enough to try it for one night, is my advice. And by the way, I don't have a financial interest. It is actually costing me money to supply friends with some start-up equipment.

Eventually the drug companies will spend millions trying to trash this info. It could bankrupt them in the future. As well as solve our national deficit.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Karl I have no doubt that EMF's are bad for you but if your house is relatively EMF free I don't see what the shielding does. I thought the emf shield was to protect you from EMF's but does it do more-- I have not read the links yet- I confess...

 

[StephenSDH]

As well as solve our national deficit.

??? You might be overreaching just a little bit.

 

[karl riley]

Stephen,

I can't resist seeing the full implications of a new discovery, even if it seems overreaching. With the huge controversy over healthcare, and the monumental expenses of keeping diseased and aging bodies going with continually more complicated devices, it is recognized that healthcare can bankrupt the nation in the future.

So if the simple act of re-connecting our bodies to the earth for periods of time can affect all the systems that have already been tested, and it turns out that we don't need all those prescription drugs after all, health care costs could plummet.

This is not an argument to convince anyone, it is just a logical extension of thought.

First you need to go to earthinginstitute.net and download some of the scientific studies, or get the book, and make your judgement. But if you try a simple grounding for one night, that might help you decide if this is worth looking into.

 

[karl riley]

Dennis,
Grounding your body is not shielding. This is something else entirely. It is true that as soon as you ground, it discharges the induced voltage from your body from the wiring. And whether it helps if a person is in a high-magnetic field situation, I don't know.

But the actual benefit is in being in conrtact with the free electrons in the earth so your body can use what it needs. You need to read more about the body's electrophysiology to understand why this helps healing and reduces all kinds of inflammation, acute and chronic.

 

[K8MHZ]

It's good to be skeptical these days, but you have to use all your brain cells, not just the first layer.

I doubt you would get away with that if you weren't a moderator here.

Also, since you seem to be a bit protective of that which bears all the markings of a scam, I am wondering if you may have some financial interests in this 'technology' that you have failed to disclose.

Again, sorry to be a spoil sport, but I just ain't buyin' it.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis,
Grounding your body is not shielding.

Yes, I agree but the LessEMF.com lists there products as emf shielding devices. This is what I was referring to.

 

[electricmanscott]

Weirdest thread ever. Cue the cuckoo clock sound effects....

 

[jumper]

Weirdest thread ever. Cue the cuckoo clock sound effects....

:grin:

I thought this was a NEC forum, not a New Age one.

Sorry Mr.Riley, but this is weird.

 

[K8MHZ]

Weirdest thread ever. Cue the cuckoo clock sound effects....

No kidding!

OK, let's see....a product (I didn't see a UL listing) that purports to connect your bare skin via exposed silver threads to the grounding pin of a live 120 volt residential receptacle.

What could possibly go wrong?

The OP's question, I think, was asking for our opinion on NEC compliance of, not the product, but the receptacle the product was going to be plugged into.

If I were called to check out a receptacle that was going to be used for this type of non listed product I would just tell the customer not to use the product. I would have nothing to do with putting my name on a receptacle, no matter how perfect it may look, that will be used in this manner.

Lightning can travel through home conductors and energize the grounding conductor to many thousands of volts for a short time, no matter how good the ground rods are. Connecting people to this conductor while they sleep is insane.

 

[K8MHZ]

Lightning safety and the sock drawer effect.

On another forum we discuss lightning and it's effects on radio equipment. Many operators have lost gear that was grounded, and grounded only (all other cables disconnected) to lightning. Even the best protection won't work every time. To date, there has been only one tried and true way to keep a piece of radio gear safe in a lightning storm.

Disconnect it from everything, and put it in the sock drawer. We have been on the air for over 100 years and there has never been one radio that was protected by the sock drawer damaged by lightning.

If lighting can take out a radio that is grounded, what do you think it would do to a person?

 

[ELA]

Don, based on the strong results of the studies conducted with either a short ground rod right outside the building or else plugged into the grounding jack on a wall receptacle, evidently it doesn't matter what the earth potential is.
(earthinginstitute.net).

Karl,
I have gone to the website twice now in an attempt to remain open minded. Below is taken from one of the studies there:

"The system used for earthing the human body must be distinguished from the grounding systems used
in electrical wiring. Hence our use of the terms, ?earthing? and ?earthed? in this article refer to
dedicated conductive systems between the body surface and an earthing rod that has been inserted
directly into the earth. This connection is entirely separate from the so-called appliance or equipment grounding
conductor in the mains, connected to the 3rd prong of a power outlet. The reason for this is
that equipment-grounding conductors are seldom, if ever, true grounds."

They seem to be indicating that it does matter how you connect and that the ground rod connection is what they require?

I work around a lot of people who are "earthed" nearly all day long with wrist straps and ankle boot straps. Would you expect them to be much better off for it?

Some of the studies are measuring electrical values in the Microvolts and then cite how they change when the body is earthed. That does not seem surprising to me.

 

[K8MHZ]

Karl,
I have gone to the website twice now in an attempt to remain open minded. Below is taken from one of the studies there:

"The system used for earthing the human body must be distinguished from the grounding systems used
in electrical wiring. Hence our use of the terms, ?earthing? and ?earthed? in this article refer to
dedicated conductive systems between the body surface and an earthing rod that has been inserted
directly into the earth. This connection is entirely separate from the so-called appliance or equipment grounding
conductor in the mains, connected to the 3rd prong of a power outlet. The reason for this is
that equipment-grounding conductors are seldom, if ever, true grounds."

They seem to be indicating that it does matter how you connect and that the ground rod connection is what they require?

I work around a lot of people who are "earthed" nearly all day long with wrist straps and ankle boot straps. Would you expect them to be much better off for it?

Some of the studies are measuring electrical values in the Microvolts and then cite how they change when the body is earthed. That does not seem surprising to me.

So our EGC's aren't true grounds but their little ground spike is?

Also, it's a violation of the NEC not to bond all grounding electrodes together.

This connection is entirely separate from the so-called appliance or equipment grounding
conductor in the mains,

It appears that somebody didn't get the memo:

 

[George Stolz]

Also, it's a violation of the NEC not to bond all grounding electrodes together.

See 250.54, as previously mentioned.

 

[K8MHZ]

See 250.54, as previously mentioned.

The electrode in question is not connected to the EGC specified in 250.118

(see the last part of the graphic I posted)

 

[karl riley]

The original question was whether connection to an isolated stake in the ground, or connection to the GEC system by way of the grounding jack in a receptacle were allowed by Code.
Some posts were relevant to this, others were concerned with whether grounding the body was "weird", a word I remember from high school.

As to Code, and other electrical questions:
Shielding often uses some of the conductive materials that are used for grounding. The shielding is usually for radio frequency and higher. Static discharge is another function.

The post that mentioned the routine use of grounded wrist straps in industry; can you tell me what they were grounded to? It occurs to me that the NEC question may have already been answered, since these are mass produced and used in computer manufacturing, and any process where static charge could damage the product. The wrist straps contain a built-in 1 megohm resistor, so that they are protected from an accidental energizing.

The providers of devices, as well as the researchers, are not thoroughly familiar with the questions about grounding that this forum was created to deal with, stemming from Mike Holt's books. That is why I am asking these questions, so I can pass on the best opinions to the researchers and product providers.

Some think the isolated stake is the better, or purer, connection to earth. Others assume the GEC system is fine. The health effects results would seem to confirm that either works.

But to get back to the short metal stake in the ground, I do not think it is correct to call it a grounding electrode, since it is not part of the building electrical system, and is not purposed to ground an electrical device, in NEC terms. So the NEC question is, is it even covered by the NEC, assuming that there are no metal parts likely to be accidentally energized? I solicit opinions about this.

Someone mentioned metalized threads and the danger of being in contact with them if they are grounded. The cloth I am using ("anti-static fabric") recommended has carbon fibers woven in, and has high enough resistance to keep currents at about 1 mA or less. The metalized (silver) fabric he mentioned has a much lower resistance and must be used with a resistor or mA fuse.

ALL CONDUCTIVE CONTACT WITH THE BODY SHOULD BE DISCONTINUED IF THUNDERSTORMS ARE IN THE AREA. But this applies to any contact with grounded metal in the building, as well as to computers and sensitive instruments. So this is not a factor as far as my question goes. I notice that the product info sheets contain this safety warning.

If anyone has opinions on either safety or NEC (should be the same, but not always), please contribute your opinion. We are close to getting this solved.

See next post about "weird", etc.