COPS Wiring

[ceb58]

I have two scenarios to present on wiring in a COPS plug for a gen. to supplement a permanently installed gen. in case of failure.

The first way this set up was wired. Normal utility lands on N1,N2 in ATS, permanent gen. wire from disco. lands on E1,E2 in ATS, T1,T2 wire from ATS goes to top lugs in a manual gen. switch. Wire on center lugs(common) goes to MDP. Wire on bottom lugs go to female COPS plug.
With this set up if the permanent gen. goes out and a portable is brought in power will be routed to the MDP with out energising any thing in the ATS which would be good if there were a need to work in the ATS ( change transformer, work on contactor, ETC...)

The second way I am being ask to wire it is.....
Wire from permanent gen. disco lands on top lugs in manual switch, wire from center lugs(common) go to E1,E2 in ATS, wire from bottom lugs go to the female COPS plug.

This way if the permanent gen. goes out and a portable is brought in it will power the emergency side of the ATS which will cause it to transfer like normal.
Some where in the second scenario I think there are some code violations but 708.24 is not clear. The main thing I see is if the problem is in the ATS then the switch will be hot. If the problem is in the contactor or transformers in the ATS then the power will have to be removed to work on it thus making the whole set up useless. Any other code violations with the second setup?

 

[tom baker]

I like option 1. If this is for a COPS application a totally manual setup would be the most reliable.

 

[ceb58]

I like option 1. If this is for a COPS application a totally manual setup would be the most reliable.

I agree with your statment but what code violations would option 2 have if any?

 

[qcroanoke]

I have two scenarios to present on wiring in a COPS plug for a gen. to supplement a permanently installed gen. in case of failure.

The first way this set up was wired. Normal utility lands on N1,N2 in ATS, permanent gen. wire from disco. lands on E1,E2 in ATS, T1,T2 wire from ATS goes to top lugs in a manual gen. switch. Wire on center lugs(common) goes to MDP. Wire on bottom lugs go to female COPS plug.
With this set up if the permanent gen. goes out and a portable is brought in power will be routed to the MDP with out energising any thing in the ATS which would be good if there were a need to work in the ATS ( change transformer, work on contactor, ETC...)

The second way I am being ask to wire it is.....
Wire from permanent gen. disco lands on top lugs in manual switch, wire from center lugs(common) go to E1,E2 in ATS, wire from bottom lugs go to the female COPS plug.

This way if the permanent gen. goes out and a portable is brought in it will power the emergency side of the ATS which will cause it to transfer like normal.
Some where in the second scenario I think there are some code violations but 708.24 is not clear. The main thing I see is if the problem is in the ATS then the switch will be hot. If the problem is in the contactor or transformers in the ATS then the power will have to be removed to work on it thus making the whole set up useless. Any other code violations with the second setup?

Knowing the systems you are refering to I really don't think you can use article 708 as a reference unless someone (municipal, state, federal, or other codes by any governmental agency having jurisdiction etc.) has declared it as a COPS.
And that is a whole nuther ballgame.

 

[ceb58]

Knowing the systems you are refering to I really don't think you can use article 708 as a reference unless someone (municipal, state, federal, or other codes by any governmental agency having jurisdiction etc.) has declared it as a COPS.
And that is a whole nuther ballgame.

OK, for the sake of discussion lets say no, it doesn't fall under 708. We can call it a back up to the permanent gen. with a big 200amp plug. I am looking for, if any, code violations in the second set up.

 

[qcroanoke]

OK, for the sake of discussion lets say no, it doesn't fall under 708. We can call it a back up to the permanent gen. with a big 200amp plug. I am looking for, if any, code violations in the second set up.

I don't think there are any. Other than the code of common sense.
Maybe Iwire can help.

 

[ceb58]

I don't think ther are any. Other than the code of common sense.
Maybe Iwire can help.

Mike, you know that the word "common sense" and the employer I work for do not go together.

Yes, hoping Bob or some of the other code guru's will chime in. Where is Roger Deas when you need him

 

[ceb58]

bump to top

 

[jumper]

My useless post.

I did not even know this article existed till now. Still on 05.

 

[acrwc10]

In your second scenario, if there were a fault in the conductors coming out of the permanent generator wouldn't your roll up generator will also fault because of the connection it the ATS ? Does it run power back to the disconnect on the generator, and what if that is left closed ?

 

[ceb58]

In your second scenario, if there were a fault in the conductors coming out of the permanent generator wouldn't your roll up generator will also fault because of the connection it the ATS ? Does it run power back to the disconnect on the generator, and what if that is left closed ?

No,it would not. The permanent gen. comes to the requried disconnect, it then leaves the disco. and lands on the top lugs (utility) side of the MTS, the wire would leave the center lugs (common) and go to E1,E2 on the ATS contactor. The wire from the plug for a portable lands on the bottom lugs (gen.) in the MTS.
If there were a fault in the conductors from the permanent gen. and a portable was brought in there would be no connection between the two because of the MTS.