210.52(G) & 4 family

[jxofaltrds]

Single family's must have a receptacle. Do multi-family units have to have one also. I can seem to find a code requirement for other than single family.

Can the required receptacle for 210.52(G) supply two GDO's or is it a violation of 430.24?

 

[Jljohnson]

Never really gave the multi-family basement receptacle much thought as most multi's that I have been involved with have no basement but the quoted section does clearly state "For one family dwellings" so I will have to cast my vote with "does not apply" to multi-family, for basements or garages. As to the section 430 violation, it would depend on the current rating of the GDO's.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Again I was not clear. Is a receptacle required in garages if there is more than a single family? 2, 3, 4 family.

Attached garages for each unit.

 

[charlie b]

I don't think it is required by the way the article is worded, and perhaps that article should be revised. But I think it should be installed anyway.

As to the question of more than one garage door opener on a single circuit, I don't think 430.24 is the problem. Rather, I think it would violate 210.25(A).

 

[bphgravity]

No, unless each dwelling is a separate building per the building code. Only then would each be considered a one family dwelling. An example would be attached townhouses.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Two GDO generally cannot be installed on the garage receptacles because of article 210.23(A)(2). I think it is a stupid rule given the fact that the door motor is running for 10-15 sec.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

If either gdo requires more than 50% then its a no go.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Thanxs guys. That is what I thought but was having a senior moment.
210.23(A)(2) was what I was trying to find.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Two GDO generally cannot be installed on the garage receptacles because of article 210.23(A)(2). I think it is a stupid rule given the fact that the door motor is running for 10-15 sec.

Thanxs guys. That is what I thought but was having a senior moment.
210.23(A)(2) was what I was trying to find.

Why would 2 units not be permitted? Each one may be smaller in load than 1/2 of the size of the branch circuit...

Bryan mentioned 210.25, I think that could be an issue. Unless the garages are fed from a common space panel.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Why would 2 units not be permitted? Each one may be smaller in load than 1/2 of the size of the branch circuit...

Bryan mentioned 210.25, I think that could be an issue. Unless the garages are fed from a common space panel.

The circuit is also feeding a receptacle in the garage. Or I should say the GDOs are feed from a GFCI on the wall. I think that it should be a blank face GFCI.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

The circuit is also feeding a receptacle in the garage. Or I should say the GDOs are feed from a GFCI on the wall. I think that it should be a blank face GFCI.

I see no issue in regards to the parent paragraph of 210.23, 210.23(A) or 210.23(A)(2). The receptacle you speak of does not change the fact that the receptacles for the GDOs are on the same circuit.

At worst, the load of the garage door openers and whatever may be plugged into the receptacle would open the overcurrent device. Exactly what the NEC is written for.
This now becomes a design issue, not a code issue.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I see no issue in regards to the parent paragraph of 210.23, 210.23(A) or 210.23(A)(2). The receptacle you speak of does not change the fact that the receptacles for the GDOs are on the same circuit.

At worst, the load of the garage door openers and whatever may be plugged into the receptacle would open the overcurrent device. Exactly what the NEC is written for.
This now becomes a design issue, not a code issue.

I am missing something.
210.23(A)(2) says "shall not exceed 50 percent".
This is a 15 AMP circuit. So 7.5 AMPs correct?

A 1/3 HP motor can be between 3.1 and 4.3 AMPs.

The GDOs do not have an AMP rating. So 2 GDOs could be as low as 6.2 AMPs and this would be OK. ?

2 @ 4.3 would not. ?

1/2 HP motor can be between 7 and 9.7 AMPs. So 2 GDOs would not work. ?

 

[charlie b]

How are you going to get two GDOs on the same circuit, without using a circuit from one tenant's panel to serve a load in another tenant's space? As I said earlier, 210.25(A) appears to present an obstacle to this plan.

 

[jxofaltrds]

How are you going to get two GDOs on the same circuit, without using a circuit from one tenant's panel to serve a load in another tenant's space? As I said earlier, 210.25(A) appears to present an obstacle to this plan.

Let me start again.

This is for one unit. It happens to be a four family building.

The two GDOs are on one 15 AMP circuit feed from the GFCI receptacle on the wall in the garage in this ONE unit.

The other units only come into play regarding 210.52(G). Does 210.52(G) apply to any of the units? I do not think so.

 

[charlie b]

Now I get it. :roll: So here are my answers:

210.52(G) is not a player. It should be revised to make it a player, but as written it does not require you to install any receptacles in these garages.

You can put the two door openers that open doors into a single unit's garage if, and only if, their motors are small enough to meet the rules that have already been presented.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Now I get it. :roll: So here are my answers:

210.52(G) is not a player. It should be revised to make it a player, but as written it does not require you to install any receptacles in these garages.

You can put the two door openers that open doors into a single unit's garage if, and only if, their motors are small enough to meet the rules that have already been presented.

That is how I read it also.

Thanxs.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Why would 2 units not be permitted? Each one may be smaller in load than 1/2 of the size of the branch circuit...

Bryan mentioned 210.25, I think that could be an issue. Unless the garages are fed from a common space panel.

Pierre many GDO draw more than 5 amps. If there are 2 GDO and they are on the same circuit as the garage receptacles then it would be a violation of article mentioned even on a 20 amp circuit.

I don't believe the section is saying that each motor could be 1/2 the size of the circuit. It states

The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires shall not exceed 50%....

Pretty clear to me.