Any light retrofitting companies?

[Thxdts]

Wondering if anyone on here subs or works for any light retrofitting companies. Are you guys getting paid by the hour or piece work?

 

[iwire]

My experience has been by the piece and with that includes lifts, ladders and miscellaneous material ... wirenuts, tie wraps, maybe wire etc..

 

[LarryFine]

Hey, home theater guy. Welcome to the forum!

Can you explain more about the circumstances?

 

[Ravenvalor]

4 lamp to 2 lamp retrofit kits

4 lamp to 2 lamp retrofit kits

If I retrofit a fluorescent troffer from 4 - lamp T12 to 2 - lamp T8 (high ballast factor) will this result in a decreased amount of foot candles at the work surface (desk)? The lighting rep won't tell me.

 

[LarryFine]

If I retrofit a fluorescent troffer from 4 - lamp T12 to 2 - lamp T8 (high ballast factor) will this result in a decreased amount of foot candles at the work surface (desk)? The lighting rep won't tell me.

It shouldn't be to hard to convert one or two and do a visual comparison. Even better, use a light meter with only one of each fixture on at a time.

I recently replaces several two-T-96 fixtures with 8' ones that use four 4' T-8's, and they seem twice as bright. Moreso, they seem to light larger areas.

 

[Thxdts]

Hey, home theater guy. Welcome to the forum!

Can you explain more about the circumstances?

Thanks for the welcome! What more would you like to know, and I will try to explain.

If I retrofit a fluorescent troffer from 4 - lamp T12 to 2 - lamp T8 (high ballast factor) will this result in a decreased amount of foot candles at the work surface (desk)? The lighting rep won't tell me.

From my experience, if you retrofit a 4 lamp T12 to a 2 lamp T8 high power ballast, the T8 is brighter, not outstanding brighter. Never measured it with a light meter though.

 

[gar]

101101-1359 EDT

Larry;

If you retrofit a 2 bulb 8' Slimline with a 4 bulb 4' T8 kit, then can you install just 2 T8s and have it function?

How many different manufacturers are there for these kits? I looked on the Lithonia site and did not see that they had a kit.

If it functions, then is the input power about 1/2 compared to the 4 bulbs? My guess is yes.

.

 

[LarryFine]

Thanks for the welcome! What more would you like to know, and I will try to explain.

You're welcome. I'm a home-theater guy, too, so it was easy to decipher your forum name.

I don't know of any "retro-fitting companies," but just about any electrician should be able to do it. Are you asking from an employer or employee point of view? As the boss, I price by the piece, so I benefit from working quickly.

From my experience, if you retrofit a 4 lamp T12 to a 2 lamp T8 high power ballast, the T8 is brighter, not outstanding brighter.

If you want brighter, go with four T-8's, or at least three.

 

[LarryFine]

If you retrofit a 2 bulb 8' Slimline with a 4 bulb 4' T8 kit, then can you install just 2 T8s and have it function?

Nope. The ballast wouldn't work. I'm talking about fixture replacements in this instance, which are still 8' long.

 

[Chamuit]

You're welcome. I'm a home-theater guy, too, so it was easy to decipher your forum name.

Larry is smart.

:grin:

 

[iwire]

If I retrofit a fluorescent troffer from 4 - lamp T12 to 2 - lamp T8 (high ballast factor) will this result in a decreased amount of foot candles at the work surface (desk)? The lighting rep won't tell me.

I don't know of anyone doing that. T-8 8' lamps are a PITA to store and transport.

In my experience you would change it from 4 lamp T-12 to 4 lamp T-8.

 

[iwire]

101101-1359 EDT

Larry;

If you retrofit a 2 bulb 8' Slimline with a 4 bulb 4' T8 kit, then can you install just 2 T8s and have it function?

How many different manufacturers are there for these kits? I looked on the Lithonia site and did not see that they had a kit.

If it functions, then is the input power about 1/2 compared to the 4 bulbs? My guess is yes.

.

Gar, there are companies that make UL listed lighting retro-fit kits that basically you change the ballasts, sockets and lamps leaving just the fixture shell intact.

A very common swap is from 2 lamp 8' T-12 High Output to 4 lamp 4' T-8 lamps with a single programed start ballast and an occupancy sensor added.

The four T-8s provide more light

The electronic ballast draws less current (Ignoring harmonic issues)

The programed start provides long lamp life even with the fixture being short cycled by the occupancy sensor.


Typically we see about 1/3 to 1/2 the current and much less 'on' time, the energy savings can be significant.

 

[gar]

101102-0759 EDT

iwire:

You are an early riser.

Thanks for the information.

My son is part owner of the building he occupies. Their largest tenant won't sign a new lease unless the T12s are replaced. Scare tactics by phone from Grainger and a local electrical supply house, actually the electrical supply is just next door, that T12 bulbs won't be available. Also from our experience T12s seem to be of low quality these days, especially GE from China.

So my son had talked to his electrician about conversion. There are about 160 fixtures that need to be converted. Since T8s may provide a higher light output the possibility is to convert every other fixture to T8s and only lamp those converted units. All the fixtures are end to end so this may be a satisfactory solution.

The basis of my original question was that if all fixtures were converted and only half lamped, if possible, that this might be a suitable solution to reduce power consumption, and still provide adequate light and more uniform light than if every other fixture was converted. By half lamped I mean each fixture would only have 2 bulbs instead of 4.

In my son's own area he plans to quit using the Slimlines and instead use 4' fixtures with cord and plug and locate these closer to and in better locations for needed work light. Then use 4' fixtures instead of the 8' for general lighting. This will reduce the total lighting load, provide better lighting where needed, and easily allow selective lighting. This means individual machines get their own light or lights. The lights for a particular machine only need to be on when needed, and likely would be powered from the machine.

.

 

[BullsnPyrs]

If I retrofit a fluorescent troffer from 4 - lamp T12 to 2 - lamp T8 (high ballast factor) will this result in a decreased amount of foot candles at the work surface (desk)? The lighting rep won't tell me.

Depends on where you are in the life cycle of the T-12's. New vs new you will get less light. Old T-12 vs new T-8 you'll get more light due to the lumen depreciation curve of the T-12.

 

[BullsnPyrs]

Nope. The ballast wouldn't work. I'm talking about fixture replacements in this instance, which are still 8' long.

Ther are kits available to retrofit that fixture to 4 T-8 lamps. Virtually all electronic ballasts are wired in parallel so any number of lamps will light. They will be slightly overdriven and lamp life will decrease slightly but they will work.

 

[BullsnPyrs]

101102-0759 EDT

iwire:

You are an early riser.

Thanks for the information.

My son is part owner of the building he occupies. Their largest tenant won't sign a new lease unless the T12s are replaced. Scare tactics by phone from Grainger and a local electrical supply house, actually the electrical supply is just next door, that T12 bulbs won't be available. Also from our experience T12s seem to be of low quality these days, especially GE from China.

So my son had talked to his electrician about conversion. There are about 160 fixtures that need to be converted. Since T8s may provide a higher light output the possibility is to convert every other fixture to T8s and only lamp those converted units. All the fixtures are end to end so this may be a satisfactory solution.

The basis of my original question was that if all fixtures were converted and only half lamped, if possible, that this might be a suitable solution to reduce power consumption, and still provide adequate light and more uniform light than if every other fixture was converted. By half lamped I mean each fixture would only have 2 bulbs instead of 4.

In my son's own area he plans to quit using the Slimlines and instead use 4' fixtures with cord and plug and locate these closer to and in better locations for needed work light. Then use 4' fixtures instead of the 8' for general lighting. This will reduce the total lighting load, provide better lighting where needed, and easily allow selective lighting. This means individual machines get their own light or lights. The lights for a particular machine only need to be on when needed, and likely would be powered from the machine.

.

If the idea is to respond to scare tactics about t-12 availability do a maintanence retrofit. Replace the lamps and ballasts to T-8 as the T-12's burn out. This cuts down on initial investment and creates energy savings over time. If he wants to go ahead and retrofit the whole building all at once the decide what the priority is, lowest initial investment or maximum energy savings. If the goal is to minimize initial investment go with 2 F32T8 lamps with a high power ballast. If you want maximum savings use a low power ballast, 2 28w T-8 lamps and install a reflector to maximize the efficeiency of the fixture.

 

[sparky90]

I flat rate charge for bucket truck service. Lamp is a set price with labor and material built in, and than we have the "combo"which is a lamp and ballast replacement with labor and material built in. Works out so a customer isnt watching the clock when it takes me less than 5 minutes to change a lamp. And they are happy because they can accurately budget in lighting repairs for their budgets.

 

[thewiseguy31]

101102-0759 EDT

iwire:

You are an early riser.

Thanks for the information.

My son is part owner of the building he occupies. Their largest tenant won't sign a new lease unless the T12s are replaced. Scare tactics by phone from Grainger and a local electrical supply house, actually the electrical supply is just next door, that T12 bulbs won't be available. Also from our experience T12s seem to be of low quality these days, especially GE from China.

So my son had talked to his electrician about conversion. There are about 160 fixtures that need to be converted. Since T8s may provide a higher light output the possibility is to convert every other fixture to T8s and only lamp those converted units. All the fixtures are end to end so this may be a satisfactory solution.

The basis of my original question was that if all fixtures were converted and only half lamped, if possible, that this might be a suitable solution to reduce power consumption, and still provide adequate light and more uniform light than if every other fixture was converted. By half lamped I mean each fixture would only have 2 bulbs instead of 4.

In my son's own area he plans to quit using the Slimlines and instead use 4' fixtures with cord and plug and locate these closer to and in better locations for needed work light. Then use 4' fixtures instead of the 8' for general lighting. This will reduce the total lighting load, provide better lighting where needed, and easily allow selective lighting. This means individual machines get their own light or lights. The lights for a particular machine only need to be on when needed, and likely would be powered from the machine.

.

The scare tactics are common these days. As of July, 2010 - manufacturers can no longer manufacture magnetic ballasts (EPACT2005) and so this renders T12 lamps useless. While retrofitting every other fixture will certain lower consumption, your distribution of light will be poor and you will see shadows. The best way to do this is to use a reflector kit and transform the fixture from a 4 lamp T12/magetic ballast - to a 2 lamp T8 with a reflector. You will see a lower footcandle level than a standard retrofit (4 lamp T8 with electronic ballast) but you will see a vast improvement over current light levels. Also, the reflectors come with new sockets and socket bars, so you get the appropriate spacing with regard to the lamps within the fixture. A typical retrofit of this nature gets a decrease in watts from approx 144 down to 55.....a 60% savings. Reflectors come in either white (91% reflective) or miro4 (95% reflective) so try each one and see which you like best. we usually use white for aesthetics.

 

[shineretrofits]

If I retrofit a fluorescent troffer from 4 - lamp T12 to 2 - lamp T8 (high ballast factor) will this result in a decreased amount of foot candles at the work surface (desk)? The lighting rep won't tell me.

You will lose lumens if you go from 4 T12s to 2 T8's. The T12 bulbs put out about 2700 lumens each (x4 = 10800) and overdrived T8's put out about 3400 each so with 2 you're only at 6,800. That's a 37% decrease in light output.

 

[Thxdts]

Anyone else work for companies doing this?