Workmanlike installation

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
JW
Who should determine who is responsible for the neat and workmanlike installation of electrical work? Should it be the contractor, the electrician, the inspector, the apprentice, or just giterdone?

On the exact same installation, should what a customer pays determine the neatness and workmanlike installation, or should the exact same job be the same quality, regardless of price.
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
jusme123 said:
Who should determine who is responsible for the neat and workmanlike installation of electrical work? Should it be the contractor, the electrician, the inspector, the apprentice, or just giterdone?

On the exact same installation, should what a customer pays determine the neatness and workmanlike installation, or should the exact same job be the same quality, regardless of price.
Click to expand...

The electrician.

The same every time.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
jusme123 said:
Who should determine who is responsible for the neat and workmanlike installation of electrical work? Should it be the contractor, the electrician, the inspector, the apprentice, or just giterdone?
Click to expand...

The customer.

On the exact same installation, should what a customer pays determine the neatness and workmanlike installation, or should the exact same job be the same quality, regardless of price.
Click to expand...

The customer. (This assumes the installation meets all other aspects of the NEC)

The NEC is a safety standard not a 'quality of installation standard'.

The NFPAs own manual of style says both "workman like" and 'neat' are vague and possibly unenforceable.

The say possibly, I say it ever went as far as court it would be unenforceable as both words are entirely subjective.
 
jwjrw

jwjrw

Senior Member
jusme123 said:
Who should determine who is responsible for the neat and workmanlike installation of electrical work? Should it be the contractor, the electrician, the inspector, the apprentice, or just giterdone?
Click to expand...



I am involved in every project we do. I want every job we do to turn out the best that it can. ALL my employees are responsible for making sure the work is done correctly and that it looks good.





jusme123 said:
On the exact same installation, should what a customer pays determine the neatness and workmanlike installation, or should the exact same job be the same quality, regardless of price.
Click to expand...




My guys have no idea what we are charging. What they know is that we do quality work on every job or we don't do the job.
 
360Youth

360Youth

Senior Member
Location
Newport, NC
Ultimately, the EC is responsible for the workmanlike conditions, the same as he is responsible for proper strapping, connections, wire and OCP sizing, etc. I can see an inspector getting involved if a job and/or job site is left in unkempt conditions. I seem to recall seeing state board reprimands in our newsletter on the conditions in whih a job was performed and left. That being said, the first and last question I tend to ask a customer when I complete a job is, "How does everything look for you."
 
360Youth

360Youth

Senior Member
Location
Newport, NC
jusme123 said:
On the exact same installation, should what a customer pays determine the neatness and workmanlike installation, or should the exact same job be the same quality, regardless of price.
Click to expand...

Never. It may determine material cost (choice of) and product selection, but never the quaity of work.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
360Youth said:
Never. It may determine material cost (choice of) and product selection, but never the quaity of work.
Click to expand...

Define 'quality of work'.


Looking at the exact same job some may feel RMC is the only way to go while another may feel EMT is right and still another may feel cable is right.

If all of the above methods meet the code it should be up to the customer to decide how much they want to spend.
 
J

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
JW
On the exact same installation, should what a customer pays determine the neatness and workmanlike installation, or should the exact same job be the same quality, regardless of price.[/QUOTE]

Clarification on question
exact same installation = the exact same fixtures and material, the only difference in the jobs is the price
 
jwjrw

jwjrw

Senior Member
iwire said:
Define 'quality of work'.


Looking at the exact same job some may feel RMC is the only way to go while another may feel EMT is right and still another may feel cable is right.

If all of the above methods meet the code it should be up to the customer to decide how much they want to spend.
Click to expand...


I agree the customer should be able to decide how much he spends .
In my post I was thinking along the lines of whatever wiring method was chosen should look neat when completed. I will give the customer options and it is up to him to decide which one suits his needs / wants.
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
jusme123 said:
Who should determine who is responsible for the neat and workmanlike installation of electrical work? Should it be the contractor, the electrician, the inspector, the apprentice, or just giterdone?
Click to expand...
I think the person doing the work (and/or his employer) is primarily responsible.

In the end, other people may get involved.

Someone acting for the AHJ is not one of those people.

The owner or someone acting on behalf of the owner is one of those other people.

jusme123 said:
On the exact same installation, should what a customer pays determine the neatness and workmanlike installation, or should the exact same job be the same quality, regardless of price.
Click to expand...

Nothing is exactly the same. Different levels of skill are involved when you send a different person to do the work. Different workers may approach the task in a different way.

It may be that someone paying a premium is mostly interested in getting back online as quickly as possible and what it looks like is not much of an issue. So the end result may not be as pretty as if you were being paid less to do the same work.

I would not obsess over this. I do not think there is an exact answer to this question.
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Although 'workmanlike' appears in the NEC 110.12, 'workmanlike' is in the NEC Style Manual as a "Possibly Unenforceable and Vague Term".
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
480sparky said:
Although 'workmanlike' appears in the NEC 110.12, 'workmanlike' is in the NEC Style Manual as a "Possibly Unenforceable and Vague Term".
Click to expand...

Is there an echo? :grin:

Thats cool, thanks for the back up and here is some for you.

PossibleUnenforceableandVague.jpg
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
jusme123 said:
Who should determine who is responsible for the neat and workmanlike installation of electrical work? Should it be the contractor, the electrician, the inspector, the apprentice, or just giterdone?
Click to expand...
Personal ethics and satisfaction.
On the exact same installation, should what a customer pays determine the neatness and workmanlike installation, or should the exact same job be the same quality, regardless of price.
Click to expand...
The same. See above response.


Added: Neat work doesn't take any longer than sloppy work, as far as I'm concerned.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top