tvss & afci

[ptonsparky]

One of the methods to solve the tripping of AFCIs with older vacums etc is to use a surge suppressor of some sort with that piece of equipment. A strip, small plug in module or whatever. We set up a Leviton 5400-TLS to test. Worked just fine at least on the drills we were using.

I had always thought that the TVSS was to protect the equipment from line side problems. Now it appears that they work equally well to protect the sytem from load side disturbance.

Have any of you had a chance to use a panel mount TVSS along with the AFCIs and if so have you noticed the performance of the AFCI?

Looks like we will be installing at least one easily accessed recept style TVSS on each receptacle branch circuit protected by an AFCI. I don't like to get the calls from unhappy customers.

 

[Cow]

I'll be interested to hear the replies.

I had a service call for a tripping AFCI a couple years ago that I couldn't figure out using a megger and a different breaker. If installing a TVSS helps, I'm all for it.

 

[hillbilly1]

Out of all of them I've installed I have had only one callback, and it was one I installed a couple of years ago. It was a pre-combination Siemens, and it would randomly trip. The home owner had another electrician remove two ceiling fans and install a couple of cheap t-8 wraps after which the problem started. I took apart the fixtures figuring he didn't ground them or skinned the neutral on the fixture, but the install was fine. Changed the breaker out to a new combination type, and now her old vacuum cleaner trips it. She bought a new vacuum, and I have not heard any more complaints.

 

[ELA]

One of the methods to solve the tripping of AFCIs with older vacums etc is to use a surge suppressor of some sort with that piece of equipment. A strip, small plug in module or whatever. We set up a Leviton 5400-TLS to test. Worked just fine at least on the drills we were using.

I had always thought that the TVSS was to protect the equipment from line side problems. Now it appears that they work equally well to protect the sytem from load side disturbance.

Have any of you had a chance to use a panel mount TVSS along with the AFCIs and if so have you noticed the performance of the AFCI?

Looks like we will be installing at least one easily accessed recept style TVSS on each receptacle branch circuit protected by an AFCI. I don't like to get the calls from unhappy customers.

Yes an EMI filter will help lessen nuisance trip issues with AFCIs.
What is important is to compare the specifications as far as attenuation values at particular frequencies.
Not all electrical noise filters are created equal.
It must be an EMI filter and not just a cheap surge suppressor with only MOVs.

I tried to locate the specifications for the unit you say you tested but could not locate them at the Leviton site.
Do you have access to the specifications?

I am immediately turned off to a product that does not provide detailed specifications for their filters, but instead only makes lots of claims.

Something to ponder when considering installing EMI filters on an AFCI circuit.

The AFCI device uses RF freq. emitted by an "actual arc" as part of its detection scheme. The reason an EMI filter helps with nuisance trips is because it filters out some of that RF before it gets to the AFCI.
So if you prevent nuisance trips are you also eliminating any desired protection against "real" arcs.

I am sure most would just be happy to have eliminated the nuisance trips - but it is something to think about.

 

[ptonsparky]

Bought this is for my tower PC some years ago. I thought it was one of the better ones at the time but that doesn't mean anything.

 

[George Stolz]

Back when these first were required, I noticed a tendency for surge strips to cause nuisance tripping on AFCIs. I'm more than a little surprised to hear that now they eliminate them...?

 

[ptonsparky]

Back when these first were required, I noticed a tendency for surge strips to cause nuisance tripping on AFCIs. I'm more than a little surprised to hear that now they eliminate them...?

Got this info from a FAQ about AFCIs from CH although I have wondered about putting a snubber on a recept to see how it worked. One of those approaches that if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything is a nail. I was concerned that the snubber would defeat the AFCI entirely. The 5400 only helped with items that were plugged directly in to it.

I am guessing that using the cheap strips referenced by ELA are a problem. The Leviton device was not cheap, but that is a subjective term.

 

[sgunsel]

Does the AFCI still function as intended?

 

[ptonsparky]

On the line side of the TVSS the drills will trip the AFCI. When the drills are plugged into the TVSS the AFCI does not trip.

 

[ptonsparky]

From the label on the back:

Suppressed voltage rating : 330 Volts L-N, L-G, N-G.