ethical/legal situation

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juptonstone

Member
Location
Lady Lake, FL
I do all of the electrical work for an RV park in florida. Recently a contractor worked on their lift station. There were several extraneous circuits hard wired into it. Note that there is not an electrical panel there. The park asked me to 1: find out where the power for the lift station comes from.
2: Re-install the circuits (I told them no).
I believe that I have found the power source... will test it in a couple of days. If I'm right, the power source comes from the disconnect for a park model home. The disconnect is 100 amps and has 2 - 100 amp breakers in it...
The question is... I am working for the park... however, am I legally obligated to notify the customer that he has been paying the electric bill for the lift station? I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place on this one...
 
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btharmy

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
But, if the residents of that home get curious about what you are doing I wouldn't hesitate to tell them. It may not be your place to seek them out to tell them, but you should be honest about it if they ask. I won't lie to cover my own mistakes, I'm sure not going to lie to cover someone else.
 
charlie b

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
I see a simple answer. Write a letter to the RV park owner (or manager), informing him (or her) of the situation. Send it by registered mail, with return receipt requested. You will have fulfilled your ethical duty to your client, who is the RV park owner, not the individual home owner. You will at the same time relieve yourself of any suspicion of complicity in having created the situation.
 
pfalcon

pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
First, the disconnect is probably park property, therefore you may rebuild/repair as required under permission of the park owner/manager.

Second, you are not required to notify the tenant about the dual use of the disconnect. Though it powers his RV it is not necessarily paid by the RV owner. Utilities may be included in the lot rent. It's not your place to discuss lease agreements.

Third, you are responsible to notify anyone who is home at the time of rebuild/repair that you are about to begin work if that work might interrupt their power.

Fourth, you must notify the park owner/manager before beginning the work that it might interrupt the RV power. You should but are not required to tell the owner/manager that he ought to give the tenant advance notice that the power may be interrupted and for what purpose.

Fifth, you should clearly mark the breakers as to their purpose. And though it's nice to know who is asking you should always truthfully tell anyone asking what your are repairing.

Last, if the tenant is home or arrives home and protests - have the park owner/manager's number handy. You get to turn the protest over to them and charge the time for any delay. Don't let the landlord make you deal with the tenant.

Such a simple question; such a complex answer.
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
juptonstone said:
I do all of the electrical work for an RV park in florida. Recently a contractor worked on their lift station. There were several extraneous circuits hard wired into it. Note that there is not an electrical panel there. The park asked me to 1: find out where the power for the lift station comes from.
Click to expand...
A reasonable request.

2: Re-install the circuits (I told them no).
Click to expand...
Why not?

I believe that I have found the power source... will test it in a couple of days. If I'm right, the power source comes from the disconnect for a park model home.

The disconnect is 100 amps and has 2 - 100 amp breakers in it...
The question is... I am working for the park... however, am I legally obligated to notify the customer that he has been paying the electric bill for the lift station? I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place on this one...
Click to expand...
I don't see anything necessarily wrong with this arrangment.

I would just matter of factly notify the park manager in writing of what you found and leave it at that. It's not your problem.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I will assume the park model is owned by your customer and even if not the pedistal and disconnect likely are. What is being metered and how ?
See no reason not to rewire lift station as long as it complies to NEC.
I would not talk to there tenant as that is not your job.
If you will be turning them off then just simply knock at door and advise them of power outage while your working. Beyond that your going beyond your business and good way to lose a customer.
At the most i would include a note on the bill that the lift station power is on this meter. For all we know the park pays the electric.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
juptonstone said:
I do all of the electrical work for an RV park in florida.
The question is... I am working for the park... however, am I legally obligated to notify the customer that he has been paying the electric bill for the lift station? I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place on this one...
Click to expand...

I doubt if you are legally obligated to tell the tenant anything but I wouldn't hook up a lift station to the disconnect until you know who's name the service is in.

If the service is in the tenant's name then you would need his/her permission to install anything.

The simple solution is just to ask the park manager what's going on. He/she can either authorize you to work on this equipment or they can't, and they can't if it's in the tenant's name.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
juptonstone said:
I do all of the electrical work for an RV park in Florida. Recently a contractor worked on their lift station. There were several extraneous circuits hard wired into it. Note that there is not an electrical panel there. The park asked me to 1: find out where the power for the lift station comes from.
2: Re-install the circuits (I told them no).
I believe that I have found the power source... will test it in a couple of days. If I'm right, the power source comes from the disconnect for a park model home. The disconnect is 100 amps and has 2 - 100 amp breakers in it...
The question is... I am working for the park... however, am I legally obligated to notify the customer that he has been paying the electric bill for the lift station? I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place on this one...
Click to expand...

Ok this whole post is confusing?

you have a lift station that is owned by some one else other then the park?

this lift station is being powered by a service for a model home that the park owns?

and the park (your customer) wants you to report where this lift station is getting its power from?

If I have the above correct then it is your duty to investigate that the lift station is receiving electric from your customer (the park)

This would be no different then if I was called to see why my customer had a high bill and found a neighbor had tapped in to my customers service.

also I would not expect a "model home" to be occupied?:-?
 
paul

paul

Senior Member
Location
Snohomish, WA
Normally, the park would be required to have the lift station come off of a house panel that is paid for by the owner. I have ran into similar situations three different times. All three times, I have found a way to let the payee know that they were paying for something they shouldn't be and how to word it to the owner. To date, I've never had an issue.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Untill the OP gives us better details it is hard to answer his questions. Main question is who is paying for the actual electric bill. And being he is working for the park he is not required to report that info to anyone other than the park.
Once we get past that he can wire this station to NEC and everyone should be happy.
If somehow they are stealing power from unsuspecting tenant that pays the bill then we have a criminal issue and should refuse to do the work.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
petersonra said:
And doing so might well be unethical. When you takes the man's money, you owe your allegience to him.
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We are not lawyers and sworn to protect the guilty. If I come to your house and find that you are stealing electricity I will report you. Why? Because I hate thieves and it doesn't much matter to me what they are stealing, gas, electricity or tools.

We are not required in any way to keep quite about any illegal activity we may observe.

I swore an oath of loyalty when I joined the military but I haven't sworn once since then to anyone. You purchase labor and nothing more.
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
growler said:
We are not lawyers and sworn to protect the guilty. If I come to your house and find that you are stealing electricity I will report you. Why? Because I hate thieves and it doesn't much matter to me what they are stealing, gas, electricity or tools.

We are not required in any way to keep quite about any illegal activity we may observe.

I swore an oath of loyalty when I joined the military but I haven't sworn once since then to anyone. You purchase labor and nothing more.
Click to expand...

If you believe with some certainty that there is illegal activity involved it is certainly correct to report it to the authorities.
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
petersonra said:
And doing so might well be unethical. When you takes the man's money, you owe your allegience to him.
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interesting take on the word "unethical". If you witness a crime and the perpetrator pays you to keep your mouth shut, you are called an accomplice and are subject to prosecution.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
All i am saying is do what your being hired to do. They want to know where the power is coming from. Trace it to source of power and what meter. It is not your job to find out who writes the check for this meter. Now if its very clear that the power is being stolen then your in a tuff spot. I would not hook it up knowing it is theft. Be careful about reporting it as this could cost you a customer. For all you know that meter might be paid for by them as well so really no theft involved
 
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