Estimating Electrical Testing %

[nmpty]

I?m looking for reference information about how to include electrical testing (low voltage) in my estimate or bid documents? Is there any recomended % based on man-hours ?
Regards
Nef

 

[zog]

I?m looking for reference information about how to include electrical testing (low voltage) in my estimate or bid documents? Is there any recomended % based on man-hours ?
Regards
Nef

% of what? You need to be way more specific on what you are asking? Testing per what spec? What equipment?

 

[brian john]

What Zog said.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Yes more info and are they looking for independent third party testing?

 

[satcom]

Many moons ago when a wiring installation was completed they meggered all the runs to assure a safe installation, then some decided why waste time testing heck if something was faulted the breaker would trip, so for some time now many installations have not been tested, and companies that do test their work have job actuals that they can use to price new work, it may not be a percent but a value for run length and installation conditions.

I would recommend you start tacking your jobs and recording the actuals for future estimates

Asking for someones actuals is like asking to borrow their wife or chainsaw, it is usually valued information used to win bids

 

[nmpty]

I?m looking for reference information about how to include electrical testing (low voltage) in my estimate or bid documents? Is there any recomended % based on man-hours ?
Regards
Nef

Thanks for all comments.
I?m working in a electrical bid and need to include cable testing (for low voltage and instrumentation loops).
I?m finishing the man-hour calculation for the entire job but I?m not shure if is practicall to take note of all circuits to stablish man-hours to test.
Regards,
NM

 

[macmikeman]

He is talking low voltage jobs. Testing is like what we do when wiring fire alarm systems- you walk around with the fire inspector and test all the pulls and smokes etc. On a big job you do need to put in a chunk of hours for it.
Too far back in the mist for me to remember the percentages, sorry about that.
Big access control systems can be a big testing period if its national security. Money stuff.

 

[zog]

He is talking low voltage jobs.

Low Voltage is defined as <1000V. So how are we supposed to have any idea what he means.

 

[satcom]

Low Voltage is defined as <1000V. So how are we supposed to have any idea what he means.

Yup more information on what type of work

 

[blingbling4r]

I?m looking for reference information about how to include electrical testing (low voltage) in my estimate or bid documents? Is there any recomended % based on man-hours ?
Regards
Nef

A % of man hours would only be useful if you had historical job information to back you up. There are various resources out there like RS Means that can give rough %'s but I wouldn't bet my job on it.

Also if by "how" you mean where in your bid would you plug it, obviously testing would NOT be a direct labor expense (unless that was the scope of the project). You don't get more pipe and wire in with the "testing" hours.

It would be an incidental labor item because you would not incur this expense unless you actually have the job and it is incidental to the project at hand.

This is important because you can have different overhead rates for various types of labor.

If you are trying to find labor units for various tests you can also try NECA Labor Units.

 

[cdslotz]

If the specs call for "Independent Testing or Third Party Testing", it means just that.
You need to send the plans and specs to a NETA Certified testing agency to get a quote as a subcontract to you for this work.
Sometimes there is a complete, spec section for this that is very descriptive of all systems required.
Sometimes each section of the specs describe the testing for that section, such as, grounding, feeders, conductors, generators/xfer swithes, devices. A lot of the testing required for switchgear, such as arc flash, selective coordination studies, GFI and such, will be by the manufacturer.
Don't take this lightly or try to price it to perform yourself, if that's not what they are asking for.
I've had testing subs run from $14K to $100K. There is no magic percentage or sq/ft number to cover this.

 

[satcom]

If the specs call for "Independent Testing or Third Party Testing", it means just that.
You need to send the plans and specs to a NETA Certified testing agency to get a quote as a subcontract to you for this work.
Sometimes there is a complete, spec section for this that is very descriptive of all systems required.
Sometimes each section of the specs describe the testing for that section, such as, grounding, feeders, conductors, generators/xfer swithes, devices. A lot of the testing required for switchgear, such as arc flash, selective coordination studies, GFI and such, will be by the manufacturer.
Don't take this lightly or try to price it to perform yourself, if that's not what they are asking for.
I've had testing subs run from $14K to $100K. There is no magic percentage or sq/ft number to cover this.

You have that right just for fun I looked at some older job actuals and one switch gear testing ran 25k and another same size project ran 33k for testing.

 

[petersonra]

I have no idea. I often go around after electricians have supposedly tested their circuits and find all kinds of mistakes. Other times I find few or no mistakes. How do you estimate that?

It might take a day or two to fix just a single mistake, especially if equipment has to be shutdown.

I think the best you can do is make your best guess and keep good records for the next time.

The type of testing makes a big difference as well. If you have to megger a bunch of wiring you might have to disconnect it first just so you can megger it and then reconnect it if you don't do the megger test before it actually gets hooked up.

 

[brian john]

If the specs call for "Independent Testing or Third Party Testing", it means just that.
You need to send the plans and specs to a NETA Certified testing agency to get a quote as a subcontract to you for this work.

Does not have to be NETA.

 

[ohmhead]

Testing low voltage gear

Testing low voltage gear

Well low voltage testing to me would be switchgear like 480 volts .
You call a testing contractor he gives you a price on you project read your spec find out what needs to be tested .

We have mostly 400amp and larger breakers tested on most jobs .

Never heard of a fire alarm wiring tested !

Normally breakers are tested mostly .

We megg our own wiring which is feeders only !

As for coordination cals thats done by your electrical engineer on the job after you give him distance of run type of wire copper or aluminum and type of conduit pvc or emt .

Thats done free for us then you set the breakers to his settings .

And last we always test our breakers dont trust Sq D - GE ect ect new breakers on every job we have one or two that dont trip due to a bad phase or factory defect .

And i agree you dont need NETA the testing guy he needs NETA .

 

[davyn1]

Hi guys just wondered after reading this thread ,(i'm UK sparky) in the NEC are there no requirements to test all installations old and new old on a regular basis and new after instal to verify safety and record results on a instalation certificate as here in the UK testing is a big part of our regs ??i have a couple of mike holts books as i'm sad and was on holiday so picked them up while in florida and never noticed anything ,also other threads mention specialist testing companies so was just curious what your regs say
cheers
davy