Need Clarity on 240.21(b)(5) outside taps of unlimited length

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only1greg

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I am currently working on a two story commercial re-roof project and had to disconnect several rooftop units. The feed for these RTUs is a 200A breaker in the MDP.3/0 Leaving the MDP in a 2" conduit overhead inside the 1st floor goes about 80', turns goes through the exterior wall turns up and over onto the roof to a j-box where it is tapped to 7 RTUs. Some of the RTUs are within 25' some are over 50'. I am being told that it falls under 240.21(b)(5)outside taps of unlimited length. I disagree and feel that it does not. I believe the only way to make this right would be to install a NEMA-3R sub panel on the roof.I need something to back me up. please advise. Thanks,Greg
 
iwire

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I have to tell you that from the sounds of it there is no violation and my hats off to the guy who knew how to work the code.

What part of this do you feel is being violated?

II. Location.
240.21 Location in Circuit. Overcurrent protection shall
be provided in each ungrounded circuit conductor and shall
be located at the point where the conductors receive their
supply except as specified in 240.21(A) through (H). Conductors
supplied under the provisions of 240.21(A) through (H)
shall not supply another conductor except through an overcurrent
protective device meeting the requirements of 240.4

(B) Feeder Taps. Conductors shall be permitted to be
tapped, without overcurrent protection at the tap, to a feeder as
specified in 240.21(B)(1) through (B)(5). The provisions of
240.4(B) shall not be permitted for tap conductors.


(5) Outside Taps of Unlimited Length. Where the conductors
are located outdoors of a building or structure, except
at the point of load termination, and comply with all of
the following conditions:

(1) The conductors are protected from physical damage in
an approved manner.

(2) The conductors terminate at a single circuit breaker or
a single set of fuses that limit the load to the ampacity
of the conductors. This single overcurrent device shall
be permitted to supply any number of additional overcurrent
devices on its load side.

(3) The overcurrent device for the conductors is an integral
part of a disconnecting means or shall be located immediately
adjacent thereto.

(4) The disconnecting means for the conductors is installed
at a readily accessible location complying with one of
the following:

a. Outside of a building or structure

b. Inside, nearest the point of entrance of the conductors

c. Where installed in accordance with 230.6, nearest
the point of entrance of the conductors
Click to expand...
 
raider1

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
Welcome to the forum.:)

The taps do orignate outside the building and do not go into the building.

Do the conductors meet the other requirements of outside taps as specified in 240.21(B)(5)?

Chris
 
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JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
iwire said:
I have to tell you that from the sounds of it there is no violation and my hats off to the guy who knew how to work the code.

What part of this do you feel is being violated?
Click to expand...

Maybe he's looking at 240.21B(5)(4), regarding the disconnecting means being nearest the point of entrance? 80' from the MCC to the wall penetration is not exactly "nearest".
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
JES2727 said:
Maybe he's looking at 240.21B(5)(4), regarding the disconnecting means being nearest the point of entrance? 80' from the MCC to the wall penetration is not exactly "nearest".
Click to expand...

IMO that section is talking about the load end of the taps not the supply end of the taps, in this case the disconnect at the HVAC unit.
 
J

JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
I see I'm outnumbered here, but I disagree that part (4) is referring to the load side disconnect. Part (3) refers to the OCPD in relation to the disconnect. Clearly the supply side disconnect. Part (4) continues on, referring to the same disconnect.

EDIT: I just read it again. Then I re-read it. I'm not sure....
 
Last edited:
raider1

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
JES2727 said:
I see I'm outnumbered here, but I disagree that part (4) is referring to the load side disconnect. Part (3) refers to the OCPD in relation to the disconnect. Clearly the supply side disconnect. Part (4) continues on, referring to the same disconnect.
Click to expand...

The disconnecting means talked about in 240.21(B)(5)(4) is the disconnecting means at the load end of the tap conductors not the OCPD protecting the feeder conductors.

Remember that 240.21(B) is talking about overcurrent protection of feeder tap conductors not the feeders themselves.

Chris
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
JES2727 said:
I see I'm outnumbered here, but I disagree that part (4) is referring to the load side disconnect. Part (3) refers to the OCPD in relation to the disconnect. Clearly the supply side disconnect. Part (4) continues on, referring to the same disconnect.
Click to expand...

In my opinion you are looking at it reversed.

Here is how I see it.

Outside feeder taps of unlimited length always originate outside.

If you do run them into a building we have to treat them just like we do service conductors. The disconnecting means outside of a building or structure or inside, nearest the point of entrance of the conductors or use 230.6 to run it some distance inside.
 
raider1

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
iwire said:
In my opinion you are looking at it reversed.

Here is how I see it.

Outside feeder taps of unlimited length always originate outside.

If you do run them into a building we have to treat them just like we do service conductors. The disconnecting means outside of a building or structure or inside, nearest the point of entrance of the conductors or use 230.6 to run it some distance inside.
Click to expand...

Thats how I see it as well Bob.

Chris
 
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