not being present for inspections

[LEO2854]

As far as I can tell the inspector has not violated any state law so there is nothing to call the board about.

Unprofessinal conduct again the inspector has no authority over a licensee unless there is a violation of the mass code ,The NEC, or the boards rules

 

[iwire]

Bob

In post 31 and 32 You can read the rules for inspectors.

Ther is nothing there that state the inspector can exclude the lisensee that hold 's the permit from the inspection

I have the rules in my code book.

No, the inspector has no authority to kick an EC off of the site but they are within their own rights to turn around and walk out the door.

Can you show me the rule that says the inspector has to perform the inspection at a certain time?

There is no MA law that says the inspector must preform the inspection, there is a law that says if the inspection is not preformed in a certain amount of time that the EC can continue without the inspection.

Of course part of that rule also requires the inspector of wires to be notified in writing and I really doubt the OP did that.

 

[iwire]

Unprofessinal conduct again the inspector has no authority over a licensee unless there is a violation of the mass code ,The NEC, or the boards rules

Again you do not know if the inspector has acted unprofessional at all.

Again the inspector cannot toss the EC out of a room but there is nothing that says the EI cannot just leave the room.

You can't just make stuff up to get the answer you want.

 

[LEO2854]

I have the rules in my code book.

No, the inspector has no authority to kick an EC off of the site but they are within their own rights to turn around and walk out the door.

Can you show me the rule that says the inspector has to perform the inspection at a certain time?

There is no MA law that says the inspector must preform the inspection, there is a law that says if the inspection is not preformed in a certain amount of time that the EC can continue without the inspection.

Of course part of that rule also requires the inspector of wires to be notified in writing and I really doubt the OP did that.

Bob what do you meen in your second sentence

 

[LEO2854]

This does not apear in the code book but it Is part of the boards rules..

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=ocaterm...tent&f=dpl_boards_el_cmr_237cmr1800&csid=Eoca

 

[jmellc]

Paid the permit fees for my deck, my room add, my pool, my window replacements, my water heater replacement, my bathroom remodel. I'm more likely to get a permit than some contractors I know and I don't get a discount. We pay federal and state taxes just like you guys, my salary is technically paid by permit fees, technically I said. I've paid all my quarters to be eligible for SS but I will lose about 1/3 of that because I will collect a government pension.

I came up through the trades and I know all the stories and there are good and bad everywhere. If every EC was as good as he thought he was there wouldn't be any need for inspectors.

OK, thanks for clearing that up, that your fees were for your own projects.

No argument here about "if they were all as good as they thought they were". I've worked with some experienced guys doing crap that a green helper knows better than to do. A large co. I worked for had some of the best job foremen and some of the worst. One was a cokehead who never had the needed materials on a job, gave orders in the morning & contradicted himself in the afternoon. His most common words were "that's not what I said". No one liked working on his jobs except a few of his "puppy dogs" & even they tired quickly of him.

 

[iwire]

This does not apear in the code book but it Is part of the boards rules..

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=ocaterm...tent&f=dpl_boards_el_cmr_237cmr1800&csid=Eoca

And has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.

 

[iwire]

I have the rules in my code book.

No, the inspector has no authority to kick an EC off of the site but they are within their own rights to turn around and walk out the door.

Can you show me the rule that says the inspector has to perform the inspection at a certain time?

There is no MA law that says the inspector must preform the inspection, there is a law that says if the inspection is not preformed in a certain amount of time that the EC can continue without the inspection.

Of course part of that rule also requires the inspector of wires to be notified in writing and I really doubt the OP did that.

Bob what do you meen in your second sentence

I mean the inspector cannot force the electrician to leave someone else property but the electrical inspector is entirely free to leave the property and not continue inspecting.

 

[cowboyjwc]

OK, thanks for clearing that up, that your fees were for your own projects.

No argument here about "if they were all as good as they thought they were". I've worked with some experienced guys doing crap that a green helper knows better than to do. A large co. I worked for had some of the best job foremen and some of the worst. One was a cokehead who never had the needed materials on a job, gave orders in the morning & contradicted himself in the afternoon. His most common words were "that's not what I said". No one liked working on his jobs except a few of his "puppy dogs" & even they tired quickly of him.

.............................

 

[cowboyjwc]

Again you do not know if the inspector has acted unprofessional at all.

Again the inspector cannot toss the EC out of a room but there is nothing that says the EI cannot just leave the room.

You can't just make stuff up to get the answer you want.

That's kind of where I was going before I got a little off track. How do we know that the OP wasn't the one acting unprofessional? We only got one side of the story.

"I don't get it, everytime I scream at the inspector, he just throws up his hands and walks away. Doesn't he know that I pay his salary and can treat him any way I want?"

 

[cowboyjwc]

Yeah, but you get some of your money back.

Not as much as you would think.:roll:

 

[Real_Bostonian]

I mean the inspector cannot force the electrician to leave someone else property but the electrical inspector is entirely free to leave the property and not continue inspecting.

And the EC is always within his rights to ask the Commonwealth to step in and do the inspecting....and they will.

I've PM the OP and know the inspector involved - I've always have had great dealings with him but that doesn't mean eveyone has (there are far far worse in the area imo). The town's website doesn't mention their policy but many towns here have a "electrician must be present at all inspections" policy or "must be present at the final".

The reason most want an electrician present is because they are only allowed to do visual inspections, they carry no tools. If they need a panel, meter, opened - the electrician MUST do it, the inspector CAN'T. Additionally the electrician provide ladders, etc.

I have no real problem not being present (saves me time) and the inspectors will sign the card &/or leave a red sticky note (usually on trench inspections).
They're inspecting the final product not the electrician - if you're not there and fail you they must explain in writing, take time stamped photos of your jobs prior to inspections. Sometimes for all parties concerned it's just easier to set up a time to meet. Recently my employer ticked off a building department then set up an inspection for 9AM, he finally showed up at 3PM. The company & the town are fueding, I just went about my business and had a pleasant chat with the actual inspector.

I file it under - pick your battles wisely. You might win them but lose the war.

 

[iwire]

And the EC is always within his rights to ask the Commonwealth to step in and do the inspecting....and they will.

Given the little info we have I highly doubt the state would send anyone out.

Can you tell me who he would call to make this happen?

but many towns here have a "electrician must be present at all inspections" policy or "must be present at the final".

Yes many do, but that has nothing to do with the OPs situation does it?

The reason most want an electrician present is because they are only allowed to do visual inspections, they carry no tools. If they need a panel, meter, opened - the electrician MUST do it, the inspector CAN'T. Additionally the electrician provide ladders, etc.

Again, that has nothing to do with the OPs situation.

They're inspecting the final product not the electrician - if you're not there and fail you they must explain in writing, take time stamped photos of your jobs prior to inspections.

What?

Can you back that up or are you just making stuff up as you type?

Are you related to LEO2854? :grin:

Sometimes for all parties concerned it's just easier to set up a time to meet.

It can be, but the in this case the inspector does not wish to meet.

 

[renosteinke]

Yes, this is the opposite of the usual situation, where the inspector expects you to be present.

Personally, I'd just tell the guy I was in my truck, let me know when he's done, or if he wants me - than get out of his way. Maybe the inspector just likes some peace and quiet as he looks things over. Maybe he really doesn't like me -for whatever reason- and doesn't want his feelings to interfere with his objectivity.

 

[iwire]

Personally, I'd just tell the guy I was in my truck, let me know when he's done, or if he wants me - than get out of his way.

You and I rarely agree on anything at all, but I have to say this is a time where I could not agree more with you.

The solution is very simple, just let the inspector have his space and the job would be inspected by now.

 

[Real_Bostonian]

What?

Can you back that up or are you just making stuff up as you type?

Are you related to LEO2854? :grin:

I came here for some conversation among professionals that's all, I don't know you, Leo or anyone else here (Why attack him for my post). Can't believe Mike allows a moderator like you to act so unprofessional - I used to think everything he was connected with was top notched - you need to grow up imo.

 

[CopperTone]

I have the rules in my code book.


No, the inspector has no authority to kick an EC off of the site but they are within their own rights to turn around and walk out the door.


There is no MA law that says the inspector must preform the inspection, there is a law that says if the inspection is not preformed in a certain amount of time that the EC can continue without the inspection.

Of course part of that rule also requires the inspector of wires to be notified in writing and I really doubt the OP did that.

Actually, I did notify him in writing. He then has 5 days to notify me back in writing of a failure or pass. He never did that either. So he is breaking the law- who to complain to?
Well. I spoke to the state investigators office and they said- there isn't much you can do - they didn't think the inspector could prevent me from attending the inspection. However they couldn't do anything until an appeal has been filed and he sited a code violation. He gave me the number to the state ethics commision and suggested I file a complaint with them or call the state attorney generals office and file a complaint with them.

Unfortunately the laws in mass and regulations for building depts and plumbing and electrical inspectors is pretty scarce. IT almost is true that they can do what ever they want. However, you do your work properly and you can almost do whatever you want.

You do not have to be present for an inspection and you do not have to open anything up for an inspector. You actually don't even have to set up an inspection. All you are required to do is send a written notice that the work is complete. That is it. The EI is required to reply to you within 5 days in writing of a pass or fail with specific code references.

This is in massachusetts that I am talking about. There are no other laws pertaining to this issue at all.

IT can be a messy fight with an inspector where usually no one wins. The botton line is this - if you are having issues with an inspector - follow the minimum requirements of the law, document everything with emails or certified mail, and don't waste your time getting worked up over it. Notify his superior in writing through certified mail. Document everything. Do not speak directly to the EI if you are having problems. Request an alternate in writing - document everything.

If you do have a hearing - all you will have is your documentation - he said she said doesn't mean anything. I can make up whatever I want and so could the inspector. Documentation doesn't lie.