200a feeder: MC or EMT & wire?

[LarryFine]

Hey. Need to price running a 200a 3ph circuit to a printing machine. Run is from an existing 3p fused switch about 5' AFF, up to an 18-20' high bar-joist ceiling, about 60' perpendicular to the joists, and down to another fused switch (came with the machine.)

The wire of choice would be 3x 3/0 cu + ground, of course. Would you choose MC cable or run EMT and pull wire? Should I consider aluminum instead? If so, what size would I need ? (NEC not available right now - long story) Is MC available that big?

It seems the MC would make for a quicker and easier install, and I'm thinking of a strut pole beam-clamped in the ceiling and shot into the concrete floor. Any alternate suggestions more than welcome (as if I could stop you. :grin Thanx as always!

 

[iwire]

MC could be cheaper but considering you do not have a large work force might be tough to install.

 

[jeremysterling]

I like running EMT. EMT may be easier and probably cheaper.

It's your call Larry and you'll be Fine with either.

 

[jumper]

MC could be cheaper but considering you do not have a large work force might be tough to install.

Bob, I have met Larry, he is a large work force by himself. He could do it.

 

[iwire]

Bob, I have met Larry, he is a large work force by himself. He could do it.

I know Larry is big.

But I have also worked with 4/0-4 CU MC, he is not going to be able to feed that through trusses by himself in any practical manor.

I think he would be ahead with EMT.

 

[220/221]

EMT, no question about it in my mind.

Seems like MC that big would be a beast.


And, why am I thinking 4/0 for 200A?

 

[chris kennedy]

EMT, no question about it in my mind.

Agreed, EMT and wire in stock here, MC in that size has lead time.

 

[jumper]

And, why am I thinking 4/0 for 200A?

AL, resi service maybe?

 

[wireguru]

i would do EMT and AL.

 

[ceb58]

I HAD to use some 3/0 cu SER cable for a install. I beat the suppy house down to $18.00/ft but that was before copper went up, again.

 

[Cow]

Emt.........

 

[DavidA]

EMT would be my choice as well...as long as you have the bender for 2". I can't stand trying to piece together an install with factory 90s etc.

 

[LarryFine]

EMT it is, then. Two 90's are cheaper than a big bender.

Whic wire, 3/0 copper or what-size aluminum, and what-size EMT for it?

What about the drop from the ceiling down? May large EMT be self-supporting for approx 15'?

 

[hurk27]

EMT it is, then. Two 90's are cheaper than a big bender.

Which wire, 3/0 copper or what-size aluminum, and what-size EMT for it?

What about the drop from the ceiling down? May large EMT be self-supporting for approx 15'?

EMT for sure, as far as the size of wire, whats the load rating? at 75' your very close to the voltage drop limit for 200 amps on 3/0 cu for motor loads, I would do 2x strut to the bar joist, for aluminum 4/0 is rated at 180 amps @ 75? and 250KCMIL is 205 amps @ 75?

As for pulling, I'm a one man band, I have pulleys and feed funnels along with a battery powered camera system to monitor the feed end, I have a green Lee cable wench with 5/16th" cable, it has two shafts sticking out at two different gear ratios that I can chuck my Dewalt cordless or 1/2" Milwaukee hammer drill to. did a 200' pull with it with out stopping once.

 

[jmellc]

AL, resi service maybe?

Probably what poster was thinking. 4/O AL is good for a 200A residential service.

I've never run MC that big, seems it would be a pain if not enough help. I've had #12 or 10 MC split the wrap if it hangs up on something, does that in no time. Seems a heavier MC would be that much worse, with all the weight dragging on every obstacle. I'd do EMT and wire. Tray cable would be an option if a tray was handy. But that too is tedious if running by yourself. The troubles of not enough help, I know them well. I think 1 man could do the wire pull in EMT if the feeding end is straight in and unobstructed. Using a tugger at pulling end it should work.

 

[LarryFine]

The printing equipment came with a 400a (for some reason) 3p switch with a trio of 200a fuses, so the load is presumed to be 160a cont. or less. Therefore, I'm looking at either 1.5" EMT with three 3/0 cu wires, or 2" EMT with three 250mcm al wires.

So, given 1.5" EMT with 3/0 cu or 2" EMT with 250mcm al, which would you select, considering overall installed weight and installation effort? Is using the larger pipe worth the larger-but-lighter aluminum, or would using the copper make it a wash?

 

[petersonra]

It should not be real hard to figure out the material cost both ways. I suspect the labor is not a whole lot different. It's big enough that it's non-trivial to work with in either case.

I once saw a lone electrician working with some pretty good sized EMT and wire. Might have been 2".

He assembled the EMT on the floor, strapped it to some columns, and pulled the wire through with a forklift truck. He greased it up pretty good, and it went right through. Then he hoisted it into place with a series of chain hoists and secured it in place using a lift.

I thought it was a pretty clever way to do it for a guy by himself.

 

[iwire]

So, given 1.5" EMT with 3/0 cu or 2" EMT with 250mcm al, which would you select, considering overall installed weight and installation effort? Is using the larger pipe worth the larger-but-lighter aluminum, or would using the copper make it a wash?

I have little doubt the 2" with AL will be the cheaper method, the real price increase with pipe comes at the jump from 2" to 2.5"

Here are my rough prices for EMT per 100'

1.25" $90

1.5" $107

2" $133

2.5" $219


The following prices are a little old (9/29/10) but may work for comparison.

3/0 copper $2900 per M

250 AL $671 per M

So the pipe cost is insignificant.

 

[growler]

2" EMT with three 250mcm al wires.

So, given 1.5" EMT with 3/0 cu or 2" EMT with 250mcm al, which would you select, considering overall installed weight and installation effort? Is using the larger pipe worth the larger-but-lighter aluminum, or would using the copper make it a wash?

Aluminum is very light in comparison to copper. If the customer will accept tha AL that's what I would go with. The cost of the conduit & fittings is not that much more. You can save enough to make it worth it.

Note: a few years ago I would never have made such a statement.

 

[LarryFine]

Okay, so with about 15' up a cinder-block wall from the disco, about 60' across the bar-joist ceiling, and about 15' down to the switch with a strut support, and considering floor clutter, I figure allowing three full days of labor (including shopping and transporting materials) for two or three people. The lifting mechanism will most likely be a 2-person scissor lift.

It looks like 2" and aluminum is the way to go. What say you? Allow a fourth day for start-to-finish, including making terminations? Have I missed anything that should be obvious?